New top 50 p4p now out on rokfin
https://rokfin.com/ranking/3184/Top-50-P4P-3923
Lots of new faces and some shakeups since the last P4P.
Would a 220 pound version of Scoles or Clark beat Hopke?
No
Would a 220 pound version of Scoles or Clark beat Hopke?
No, IMO
It is an impossible question. I think 220 Scoles wins.
Is he 5'8 or 6'3?
Scoles would obviously be 6'3" at about 8% body fat to make fair comparison.
Quote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2023, 09:21:04 PMScoles would obviously be 6'3" at about 8% body fat to make fair comparison.
Then he's not the same wrestler, style, etc.
Obviously, there's been some really successful lighter weights that I've moved up to heavier weights with a lot of success, which I think is your point.
In my opinion, 138-170 are much deeper than 220. Very few 220s train much in the off-season compared to middle weights. We are seeing more big guys train in summer but way less than smaller to middle weights. Scoles and O'Toole are some of the best wrestlers I've seen in the past 10 years in Wisconsin. Scoles beat a 4x finalist at 145 to win his first title.
Hopke is great! We are splitting hairs here, but I would have Scoles as number 1.
Quote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2023, 01:42:51 PMWould a 220 pound version of Scoles or Clark beat Hopke?
Short answer is no. A little more elaborate answer is absolutely not.
Hopke is the best high school wrestler I've ever seen. Not sure if scoles makes my top 10.
Quote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 06:03:05 AMQuote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2023, 01:42:51 PMWould a 220 pound version of Scoles or Clark beat Hopke?
Short answer is no. A little more elaborate answer is absolutely not.
Hopke is the best high school wrestler I've ever seen. Not sure if scoles makes my top 10.
Ha! To say Hopke is better than Keegan O'Tool is humorous!
Admit biased - but i will use fact and not just an eye test.
123-1 in three seasons- only loss to the current #1 at 145 by 2 points. Wins against 6 nationally ranked wrestlers in the last 9 months. Beat a 3x state finalist, 2x state champ in the state finals sophomore year - by major decision. 76% of high school wins were by fall or tech fall. Given the assumption they are the same weight you are saying this wrestler doesn't have a chance?
Don't have the info but quite sure the other mentioned wrestler has some pretty impressive numbers as well.
Quote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2023, 01:42:51 PMWould a 220 pound version of Scoles or Clark beat Hopke?
Isn't Sinclair that guy?
I believe I had heard Sinclair lost to a guy this year that Koy beat, LG you may have told me that one, don't remember the details.
Quote from: madeyson on March 10, 2023, 08:19:21 AMQuote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 06:03:05 AMQuote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2023, 01:42:51 PMWould a 220 pound version of Scoles or Clark beat Hopke?
Short answer is no. A little more elaborate answer is absolutely not.
Hopke is the best high school wrestler I've ever seen. Not sure if scoles makes my top 10.
Ha! To say Hopke is better than Keegan O'Tool is humorous!
Admit biased - but i will use fact and not just an eye test.
123-1 in three seasons- only loss to the current #1 at 145 by 2 points. Wins against 6 nationally ranked wrestlers in the last 9 months. Beat a 3x state finalist, 2x state champ in the state finals sophomore year - by major decision. 76% of high school wins were by fall or tech fall. Given the assumption they are the same weight you are saying this wrestler doesn't have a chance?
Don't have the info but quite sure the other mentioned wrestler has some pretty impressive numbers as well.
Hopke is a better high school wrestler than otoole. Period end of story.
As a freshman at 220lbs he had state Champs bumping up to get away from him because he would pin them. A freshman... at 220... not a freshman wrestling little guys. A freshman wrestling grown men and they were afraid of him.
As far as bias... I'm not sure what you mean. I live in algoma and grew up in green bay. I don't know anyone from amery.
When was hopkes last loss at any level?
Quote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 09:42:13 AMQuote from: madeyson on March 10, 2023, 08:19:21 AMQuote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 06:03:05 AMQuote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2023, 01:42:51 PMWould a 220 pound version of Scoles or Clark beat Hopke?
Short answer is no. A little more elaborate answer is absolutely not.
Hopke is the best high school wrestler I've ever seen. Not sure if scoles makes my top 10.
Ha! To say Hopke is better than Keegan O'Tool is humorous!
Admit biased - but i will use fact and not just an eye test.
123-1 in three seasons- only loss to the current #1 at 145 by 2 points. Wins against 6 nationally ranked wrestlers in the last 9 months. Beat a 3x state finalist, 2x state champ in the state finals sophomore year - by major decision. 76% of high school wins were by fall or tech fall. Given the assumption they are the same weight you are saying this wrestler doesn't have a chance?
Don't have the info but quite sure the other mentioned wrestler has some pretty impressive numbers as well.
Hopke is a better high school wrestler than otoole. Period end of story.
As a freshman at 220lbs he had state Champs bumping up to get away from him because he would pin them. A freshman... at 220... not a freshman wrestling little guys. A freshman wrestling grown men and they were afraid of him.
As far as bias... I'm not sure what you mean. I live in algoma and grew up in green bay. I don't know anyone from amery.
When was hopkes last loss at any level?
Bias was mine not yours - pick on the "little guys" over grown men - nice! No use arguing with nonsense. I think David Taylor starting as a little guy then wrestling - in your words "grown men" did just fine. Size and maturity do not correlate to success in high school wrestling. You keyboard warriors that hide behind a screen throwing out digs on kids is bad. Koy Hopke is a beast and a pleasure to watch - was just trying to stir debate with facts and not insults as you did.
Quote from: madeyson on March 10, 2023, 10:38:05 AMQuote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 09:42:13 AMQuote from: madeyson on March 10, 2023, 08:19:21 AMQuote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 06:03:05 AMQuote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2023, 01:42:51 PMWould a 220 pound version of Scoles or Clark beat Hopke?
Short answer is no. A little more elaborate answer is absolutely not.
Hopke is the best high school wrestler I've ever seen. Not sure if scoles makes my top 10.
Ha! To say Hopke is better than Keegan O'Tool is humorous!
Admit biased - but i will use fact and not just an eye test.
123-1 in three seasons- only loss to the current #1 at 145 by 2 points. Wins against 6 nationally ranked wrestlers in the last 9 months. Beat a 3x state finalist, 2x state champ in the state finals sophomore year - by major decision. 76% of high school wins were by fall or tech fall. Given the assumption they are the same weight you are saying this wrestler doesn't have a chance?
Don't have the info but quite sure the other mentioned wrestler has some pretty impressive numbers as well.
Hopke is a better high school wrestler than otoole. Period end of story.
As a freshman at 220lbs he had state Champs bumping up to get away from him because he would pin them. A freshman... at 220... not a freshman wrestling little guys. A freshman wrestling grown men and they were afraid of him.
As far as bias... I'm not sure what you mean. I live in algoma and grew up in green bay. I don't know anyone from amery.
When was hopkes last loss at any level?
Bias was mine not yours - pick on the "little guys" over grown men - nice! No use arguing with nonsense. I think David Taylor starting as a little guy then wrestling - in your words "grown men" did just fine. Size and maturity do not correlate to success in high school wrestling. You keyboard warriors that hide behind a screen throwing out digs on kids is bad. Koy Hopke is a beast and a pleasure to watch - was just trying to stir debate with facts and not insults as you did.
My name is Rory Vanden Avond. What's yours keyboard warrior?
What did I say that was an insult? No need to play the victim card. It's a fact that as a freshman it's easier to win it all at the lighter weights than it is the upper weights. Don't know that would be considered an insult.
I don't care that much because high school seasons won't make their careers but I would give Hopke the edge over O'Toole at this point. Both were recent world champs at their age groups but I'm pretty sure (not 100% though) Hopke had a more dominant run. Maybe somebody can look up those stats.
I am 100% sure he had a more dominant H.S. season than O'Toole ever did. Didn't he not give up a single point (not even an escape) all season, had all or almost all 1st period pins and wrestled a little over a minute the entire state tournament? O'Toole never had a high school season close to that.
I wouldn't compare underclassman performance because it's a lot harder to win as a freshman 220 lber than as a smaller guy (as statman indicated).
Koy Hopke is in our conference and is the best high school wrestler I have ever seen (It's an amazing feat just to make it to second period with him). In addition, he is an all-conference running back and linebacker, plus he plays baseball.
And he is a World Champ!
Only three wrestlers have made it an entire match (Max Ramberg (WI D2 state champ, Gavin Tegles WI D3 state champ and Gavin Nelson 3x Minnesota AA state champ) with him as all other matches wrestled have ended by fall
His football stats for 2022 were (from WSN)
Rushing: 204 attempts, 1205 yards and 13 tds
Defense: 87 tackles, 25 assisted tackles for total of 112 tackles
Baseball stats:.381 batting average (from WSN)
How many of the other wrestlers you are mentioning are three sport athletes and still dominate everyone? None of them.
You have to go back to 5/5/2018 for his last loss on his track profile
Note, I am not from Amery and consider them my arch rival from back in my Middle Border Conference days so it hurts to give anything related to Amery kudos, but he is just so good and such a great high school sport ambassador that I have to give him his props
Quote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 03:09:52 PMQuote from: madeyson on March 10, 2023, 10:38:05 AMQuote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 09:42:13 AMQuote from: madeyson on March 10, 2023, 08:19:21 AMQuote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 06:03:05 AMQuote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2023, 01:42:51 PMWould a 220 pound version of Scoles or Clark beat Hopke?
Short answer is no. A little more elaborate answer is absolutely not.
Hopke is the best high school wrestler I've ever seen. Not sure if scoles makes my top 10.
Ha! To say Hopke is better than Keegan O'Tool is humorous!
Admit biased - but i will use fact and not just an eye test.
123-1 in three seasons- only loss to the current #1 at 145 by 2 points. Wins against 6 nationally ranked wrestlers in the last 9 months. Beat a 3x state finalist, 2x state champ in the state finals sophomore year - by major decision. 76% of high school wins were by fall or tech fall. Given the assumption they are the same weight you are saying this wrestler doesn't have a chance?
Don't have the info but quite sure the other mentioned wrestler has some pretty impressive numbers as well.
Hopke is a better high school wrestler than otoole. Period end of story.
As a freshman at 220lbs he had state Champs bumping up to get away from him because he would pin them. A freshman... at 220... not a freshman wrestling little guys. A freshman wrestling grown men and they were afraid of him.
As far as bias... I'm not sure what you mean. I live in algoma and grew up in green bay. I don't know anyone from amery.
When was hopkes last loss at any level?
Bias was mine not yours - pick on the "little guys" over grown men - nice! No use arguing with nonsense. I think David Taylor starting as a little guy then wrestling - in your words "grown men" did just fine. Size and maturity do not correlate to success in high school wrestling. You keyboard warriors that hide behind a screen throwing out digs on kids is bad. Koy Hopke is a beast and a pleasure to watch - was just trying to stir debate with facts and not insults as you did.
My name is Rory Vanden Avond. What's yours keyboard warrior?
What did I say that was an insult? No need to play the victim card. It's a fact that as a freshman it's easier to win it all at the lighter weights than it is the upper weights. Don't know that would be considered an insult.
Understood
Tom Clark
Quote from: madeyson on March 10, 2023, 03:49:20 PMQuote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 03:09:52 PMQuote from: madeyson on March 10, 2023, 10:38:05 AMQuote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 09:42:13 AMQuote from: madeyson on March 10, 2023, 08:19:21 AMQuote from: statman on March 10, 2023, 06:03:05 AMQuote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2023, 01:42:51 PMWould a 220 pound version of Scoles or Clark beat Hopke?
Short answer is no. A little more elaborate answer is absolutely not.
Hopke is the best high school wrestler I've ever seen. Not sure if scoles makes my top 10.
Ha! To say Hopke is better than Keegan O'Tool is humorous!
Admit biased - but i will use fact and not just an eye test.
123-1 in three seasons- only loss to the current #1 at 145 by 2 points. Wins against 6 nationally ranked wrestlers in the last 9 months. Beat a 3x state finalist, 2x state champ in the state finals sophomore year - by major decision. 76% of high school wins were by fall or tech fall. Given the assumption they are the same weight you are saying this wrestler doesn't have a chance?
Don't have the info but quite sure the other mentioned wrestler has some pretty impressive numbers as well.
Hopke is a better high school wrestler than otoole. Period end of story.
As a freshman at 220lbs he had state Champs bumping up to get away from him because he would pin them. A freshman... at 220... not a freshman wrestling little guys. A freshman wrestling grown men and they were afraid of him.
As far as bias... I'm not sure what you mean. I live in algoma and grew up in green bay. I don't know anyone from amery.
When was hopkes last loss at any level?
Bias was mine not yours - pick on the "little guys" over grown men - nice! No use arguing with nonsense. I think David Taylor starting as a little guy then wrestling - in your words "grown men" did just fine. Size and maturity do not correlate to success in high school wrestling. You keyboard warriors that hide behind a screen throwing out digs on kids is bad. Koy Hopke is a beast and a pleasure to watch - was just trying to stir debate with facts and not insults as you did.
My name is Rory Vanden Avond. What's yours keyboard warrior?
What did I say that was an insult? No need to play the victim card. It's a fact that as a freshman it's easier to win it all at the lighter weights than it is the upper weights. Don't know that would be considered an insult.
Understood
Tom Clark
Statman wasn't critical of any kid but rather throwing praise on another the way I read it.
Yeah...that was a weird exchange...I never saw an insult thrown at anyone. Both have their opinions and were stating them.
Posting while drinking can be a dangerous things...LOL
Quote from: dman on March 11, 2023, 09:17:15 AMYeah...that was a weird exchange...I never saw an insult thrown at anyone. Both have their opinions and were stating them.
Posting while drinking can be a dangerous things...LOL
As for the insult - apologize I have a light weight kid - and when he said a freshman wrestling little guys isn't the same - I took it personal - my bad. Just like I don't like the debate about D1 vs D2 vs D3 - I don't like the light weight vs heavy weight debate. I think both are great to watch and both have great wrestlers. But comparing a 120 lb and a 220 lb is apples to oranges - the wrestling styles are different. Sorry for taking something personal that was not intended.
Comparing apples to oranges.
Scoles and O"Toole have their ways of being #1 all time. They both took down some highly rated big seniors as freshmen. We are all impressed with Hopke as well.
Well said rank wizard.
Quote from: rankwizard on March 12, 2023, 11:08:36 AMComparing apples to oranges.
Scoles and O"Toole have their ways of being #1 all time. They both took down some highly rated big seniors as freshmen. We are all impressed with Hopke as well.
Eh...not all ;D
O'toole is much more skilled than Hopke, but Hopke is more dominant. It's hard to compare the 2 a guy at 220 doesn't possibly move the same as a guy at 145.
Although I love the passion and the debate but, I think we got a little off topic......is this the "current P4P" or the "best all time P4P"