http://onmilwaukee.com/myOMC/authors/jimmycarlton/wiaanewrulescheering.html
And in other news, the WIAA has determined that wins and losses will not be recorded anymore so nobody's feelings are hurt. In addition, sports such as wrestling, the state tournament will be replaced with a round robin tournament in which all kids receive participation trophies.
Chanting? Really? This is what they are concerned about? Am I the only one that thinks this is a little ridiculous? I get it as far as chanting things that are using foul language, but some of the examples that are given on what is not allowed, are you kidding me?
I like that commercial where the dad rips off the "PARTICIPANT" plate on his boys trophy and writes in "CHAMPS." I bet some on here have some medals that have real meaning in their lives. I have one that , to me, means a ton.
Gonna call the 5/o for chanting "air ball?"
What chants can we have in wrestling?
"Ooooiiiiilll cheeeeeeeck, oooooiiiiiilll cheeeeeeeck!!!"
"staaaaaaaaaalling staasaaaallling!"
"Buuuuut draaaaaag....."
This has inspired me to start wrestling chants.
"Riiiiiing wooooorm, riiiiing woooooooorm!"
Quote from: crossface21 on January 11, 2016, 01:42:35 PM
http://onmilwaukee.com/myOMC/authors/jimmycarlton/wiaanewrulescheering.html
And in other news, the WIAA has determined that wins and losses will not be recorded anymore so nobody's feelings are hurt. In addition, sports such as wrestling, the state tournament will be replaced with a round robin tournament in which all kids receive participation trophies.
Chanting? Really? This is what they are concerned about? Am I the only one that thinks this is a little ridiculous? I get it as far as chanting things that are using foul language, but some of the examples that are given on what is not allowed, are you kidding me?
Apparently they are trying to discourage fans from coming to events, I can see no other reason for doing this. If you knock out the student fan base, you are left with a bunch of old folks like us in the stands, that will make for an exciting atmosphere....
I hope all athletic directors threw this memo in the trash.
I did find it odd the WIAA is worried about the fans as every sport tries to curb celebrating because it somehow offends the loser. Don't play if you can't compete and handle losing.
I did find it funny in attending a volleyball tourney this weekend that volleyball still allows all the chants and dances after "aces" and "points". I hope they never change it but I think it proves that it is not offending to the other team. Can you imagine what would happen if a pitcher struck out a batter and everyone came to the mound and did a chant and dance and yelled "strikeout" or "K". How about if a football team did a little dance and chant in the huddle after getting a first down? Why not?
We now know fans probably cannot yell "first down"! Kids should be able to celebrate and fans should be able to cheer and show school spirit and if that jabs a little at the opposing team then that can be fun. I will never condone an adult booing a high school athlete but I would expect that the student section should boo the other team when they run on the field.
Or we can have no fans and no school spirit.
I keep struggling to find one good thing about the WIAA other than they are the one entity that ties all schools together to make having a state championship easier.
A girl from Hilbert was suspended 5 games for telling the WIAA what she thought of the policy on twitter. She told them to Eat something.
While I totally disagree with the WIAA, you have to be smart about where and when you voice your displeasure.
Sincerely
Greg S
;D
Quote from: bigoil on January 11, 2016, 03:24:01 PM
A girl from Hilbert was suspended 5 games for telling the WIAA what she thought of the policy on twitter. She told them to Eat something.
While I totally disagree with the WIAA, you have to be smart about where and when you voice your displeasure.
Sincerely
Greg S
;D
http://www.postcrescent.com/story/sports/2016/01/08/prep-athlete-suspended-tweet/78525606/
So now tweeting the WIAA to eat solid waste gets you a suspension greater that getting caught drinking
The WIAA needs to remove heads from Arseholes!!!
I like this girl's Mom. She doesn't sound hysterical, one way, or the other. My kid goofed up. It is't the worse thing I've ever seen, but she did it; now we have to deal with the consequences.
*Her punishment seems a little overzealous, IMO.
obviously the pen is much mightier than (pick your poison). Saying the king has no clothes is dangerous.
Saw this on twitter
WIAA acceptable FT chant: "We will reduce our level to ambient noise on your attempt, unless you find such silence to be disconcerting."
A friend came up with these new chants.
For Airball- "Don't stop trying", "No one's perfect"
For a foul/penalty- "Mom still loves you"
To the losing team- "Better luck next time
Was the WIAA really receiving so many complaints from athletes whose feelings were hurt by the opposing team's student sections? I don't think any of these things are affecting athletes but somehow matter to some oversensitive adults.
left punch
Rip the face
Hit the elbow
All things I say every dual many times. Air all seems a bit tame.
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 12, 2016, 03:46:35 PM
A friend came up with these new chants.
For Airball- "Don't stop trying", "No one's perfect"
For a foul/penalty- "Mom still loves you"
To the losing team- "Better luck next time
Was the WIAA really receiving so many complaints from athletes whose feelings were hurt by the opposing team's student sections? I don't think any of these things are affecting athletes but somehow matter to some oversensitive adults.
Thanks for the laugh!
I think they're actually changing the ref's rule book for basketball. In addition to calling fouls for illegal contact, the refs are now calling fouls for hurt feelings. If any player looks disappointed or like they may be offended, that's an automatic two free throws. I hope this will deter bullies who yell things like, "air ball".
Quote from: bigoil on January 11, 2016, 03:24:01 PM
A girl from Hilbert was suspended 5 games for telling the WIAA what she thought of the policy on twitter. She told them to Eat something.
While I totally disagree with the WIAA, you have to be smart about where and when you voice your displeasure.
Sincerely
Greg S
;D
:-\
I'm with you, Greg!!!
(ya scalliwag!)
Jay Bilas has some gems on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/jaybilas/status/687015310189277184
...@JayBilas: WIAA acceptable chant: "We shall not spell out anything in unison regarding your appearance, and hope you have a positive self image."
...@JayBilas: WIAA acceptable FT chant: "We will reduce our level to ambient noise on your attempt, unless you find such silence to be disconcerting."
...@JayBilas: WIAA acceptable chant: "Your lofty ranking is not subject to question, but we respectfully submit that our team may have been overlooked."
Yes, Bilas' tweets were pretty good. This is getting national attention. Scott Van Pelt is going to have a segment on Sportscenter tonight as well. Good job WIAA.
I don't know... I still think we as a culture look for reasons to get upset. These are not WIAA "rules" in the sense that violating them will get you (or your team or your school) some kind of punishment. These are WIAA guidelines for how spectators should behave. I don't think there is really any desire or ability by the WIAA to "enforce" them. It is your school's choice whether they adopt and enforce them. It is your choice whether you accept and abide by them.
The young lady from Hilbert seems an entirely separate issue... but again we all look to get as upset as possible about it.
I wonder if those of us that complain about participation being low ever stop to think what this sounds like to a 14 year old who is on the fence about joining an activity? "I want to join basketball... I'm not vey good... and all the adults in my life think my peers have an inalienable right to chant "airball" at me when I screw up."
I must not be thick-skinned enough I guess.
Quote from: CLC FAN on January 12, 2016, 08:20:51 PM
I don't know... I still think we as a culture look for reasons to get upset. These are not WIAA "rules" in the sense that violating them will get you (or your team or your school) some kind of punishment. These are WIAA guidelines for how spectators should behave. I don't think there is really any desire or ability by the WIAA to "enforce" them. It is your school's choice whether they adopt and enforce them. It is your choice whether you accept and abide by them.
The young lady from Hilbert seems an entirely separate issue... but again we all look to get as upset as possible about it.
I wonder if those of us that complain about participation being low ever stop to think what this sounds like to a 14 year old who is on the fence about joining an activity? "I want to join basketball... I'm not vey good... and all the adults in my life think my peers have an inalienable right to chant "airball" at me when I screw up."
I must not be thick-skinned enough I guess.
Actually it's the WIAA and (democrat voting) parents that are looking for something to be upset about. Don't play basketball, or any sport if you will be offended by a completely harmless chant. I have no problem with that, I won't miss you if you don't play...nor will anyone else but your sensitive Mommy and Daddy. I don't care about your delicate ego. Grow up. Kids wouldn't even know to be "offended" by it if they weren't taught to be "offended" by the same idiots that created this embarrassment.
This was actually a WIAA reminder for up coming tournament games, that is it. It is up to schools to decide how and if they find chants unacceptable. Talk to you school administration.
We've got spirit yes we do, we'll hold our taunts how about you?
De - fense De - fense - an obviously political chant that needs to be barred from every sport.
Someone should invite Robin Ficker to your next meet and see what the WIAA thinks ;D
Quote from: lizard king on January 13, 2016, 08:20:44 AM
This was actually a WIAA reminder for up coming tournament games, that is it. It is up to schools to decide how and if they find chants unacceptable. Talk to you school administration.
This is true but it was a way of strong arming school administrations into enforcing these things more. Luckily I think it backfired and now school administrations have seen the public backlash and will feel more strongly that they do not need to worry about it.
If your being strong armed that easily, maybe you should not be in administration. The WIAA may feel that way, but the administrators, many of them do as well, and they enforce it. I, IN NO WAY, support racist, or sexist type chants, but any sports related chants at the varsity level, go for it. That is part of why I liked playing.
At least the basketball players have a chance after an airball to come back down the court, and redeem themselves with a great play. If you are winning by 8, get caught in a headsteal, get pinned, half of the gym goes crazy, and you are done for the night. That's one thing I've always said about wrestling, one mistake and it can be over quickly.
"The only way he can beat you is by going big, WATCH YOUR HEAD!!!"
Wraslfan, miss the political threads? ::)
Quote from: wraslfan on January 13, 2016, 08:07:17 AM
Quote from: CLC FAN on January 12, 2016, 08:20:51 PM
I don't know... I still think we as a culture look for reasons to get upset. These are not WIAA "rules" in the sense that violating them will get you (or your team or your school) some kind of punishment. These are WIAA guidelines for how spectators should behave. I don't think there is really any desire or ability by the WIAA to "enforce" them. It is your school's choice whether they adopt and enforce them. It is your choice whether you accept and abide by them.
The young lady from Hilbert seems an entirely separate issue... but again we all look to get as upset as possible about it.
I wonder if those of us that complain about participation being low ever stop to think what this sounds like to a 14 year old who is on the fence about joining an activity? "I want to join basketball... I'm not vey good... and all the adults in my life think my peers have an inalienable right to chant "airball" at me when I screw up."
I must not be thick-skinned enough I guess.
Actually it's the WIAA and (democrat voting) parents that are looking for something to be upset about. Don't play basketball, or any sport if you will be offended by a completely harmless chant. I have no problem with that, I won't miss you if you don't play...nor will anyone else but your sensitive Mommy and Daddy. I don't care about your delicate ego. Grow up. Kids wouldn't even know to be "offended" by it if they weren't taught to be "offended" by the same idiots that created this embarrassment.
This is the wrestling forum. Stop trying to toss your political agenda into the argument. I come here to get away from all that BS.
"Actually it's the WIAA and (democrat voting)" (absolutely no reason to make this claim)
Hmmm, supposedly no political stuff. Now, someone will be accused of being too thin skinned or "not able to take a joke" or "too sensitive".
All this after they get their jab in.
To play devil's advocate... many think it is ok to yell "air ball". How different is that than simply yelling "loser"?
I am guessing most would be ok with the former but not the latter. There is no really good reason for distiction between the two. The purpose of both is the same. Something to think about. We basically get down to splitting hairs as to what is ok or not ok.
The WIAA is not banning cheering for your team.
I guess some see it as Bullying ???
Can you cheer on your team?? Can you clap and say great job and cheer loudly after winning without hurting the losers feelings??
Its part of the game...I'm not sure I understand. Its the teammates job and the coaches job to get their teammate/player back in it mentally after a bad play/air ball.
I kinda understand it, but we'll see how fans get around the rules.
Quote from: wraslfan on January 13, 2016, 08:07:17 AM
Quote from: CLC FAN on January 12, 2016, 08:20:51 PM
I don't know... I still think we as a culture look for reasons to get upset. These are not WIAA "rules" in the sense that violating them will get you (or your team or your school) some kind of punishment. These are WIAA guidelines for how spectators should behave. I don't think there is really any desire or ability by the WIAA to "enforce" them. It is your school's choice whether they adopt and enforce them. It is your choice whether you accept and abide by them.
The young lady from Hilbert seems an entirely separate issue... but again we all look to get as upset as possible about it.
I wonder if those of us that complain about participation being low ever stop to think what this sounds like to a 14 year old who is on the fence about joining an activity? "I want to join basketball... I'm not vey good... and all the adults in my life think my peers have an inalienable right to chant "airball" at me when I screw up."
I must not be thick-skinned enough I guess.
Actually it's the WIAA and (democrat voting) parents that are looking for something to be upset about. Don't play basketball, or any sport if you will be offended by a completely harmless chant. I have no problem with that, I won't miss you if you don't play...nor will anyone else but your sensitive Mommy and Daddy. I don't care about your delicate ego. Grow up. Kids wouldn't even know to be "offended" by it if they weren't taught to be "offended" by the same idiots that created this embarrassment.
Please tell us how you know with absolute certainty how all these people are voting.
Quote from: CLC FAN on January 12, 2016, 08:20:51 PM
I don't know... I still think we as a culture look for reasons to get upset. These are not WIAA "rules" in the sense that violating them will get you (or your team or your school) some kind of punishment. These are WIAA guidelines for how spectators should behave. I don't think there is really any desire or ability by the WIAA to "enforce" them. It is your school's choice whether they adopt and enforce them. It is your choice whether you accept and abide by them.
The young lady from Hilbert seems an entirely separate issue... but again we all look to get as upset as possible about it.
I wonder if those of us that complain about participation being low ever stop to think what this sounds like to a 14 year old who is on the fence about joining an activity? "I want to join basketball... I'm not vey good... and all the adults in my life think my peers have an inalienable right to chant "airball" at me when I screw up."
I must not be thick-skinned enough I guess.
Great post and absolutely right. As for the young lady's suspension, maybe this had something to do with it? ...Gehl's tweet, which contained profanity directed toward the WIAA...
Quote from: wraslfan on January 13, 2016, 08:07:17 AM
Quote from: CLC FAN on January 12, 2016, 08:20:51 PM
I don't know... I still think we as a culture look for reasons to get upset. These are not WIAA "rules" in the sense that violating them will get you (or your team or your school) some kind of punishment. These are WIAA guidelines for how spectators should behave. I don't think there is really any desire or ability by the WIAA to "enforce" them. It is your school's choice whether they adopt and enforce them. It is your choice whether you accept and abide by them.
The young lady from Hilbert seems an entirely separate issue... but again we all look to get as upset as possible about it.
I wonder if those of us that complain about participation being low ever stop to think what this sounds like to a 14 year old who is on the fence about joining an activity? "I want to join basketball... I'm not vey good... and all the adults in my life think my peers have an inalienable right to chant "airball" at me when I screw up."
I must not be thick-skinned enough I guess.
Actually it's the WIAA and (democrat voting) parents that are looking for something to be upset about. Don't play basketball, or any sport if you will be offended by a completely harmless chant. I have no problem with that, I won't miss you if you don't play...nor will anyone else but your sensitive Mommy and Daddy. I don't care about your delicate ego. Grow up. Kids wouldn't even know to be "offended" by it if they weren't taught to be "offended" by the same idiots that created this embarrassment.
really? serious? wow!
If an athlete can't take some ribbing by the opposing team's fans then how they heck can they handle getting on the bus after the game/match is over and the ref has declared you to be the loser! Every competition makes somebody a LOSER! Every period, every play there is a winner and a loser! Deal with it and learn from it. And the truth is every athlete does. They lost but internally they do not feel like a loser. And if they do then they better get over that or life is going to beat them down.
If these cheers are a form of bullying than we can call "life" a bully because it is not going to make everyone a winner.
Should we stop raising the winner's hand after the match. I mean doesn't that blatantly show that we are celebrating the winner and making sure everyone else knows the other wrestler is a loser?
I think facing that adversity and pressure and putting yourself on the line is what makes athletes more successful in many aspects of life.
They are not saying you can't cheer for your team.
Doc.."If an athlete can't take some ribbing by the opposing team's fans then how they heck can they handle getting on the bus after the game/match is over and the ref has declared you to be the loser! Every competition makes somebody a LOSER! Every period, every play there is a winner and a loser! Deal with it and learn from it. And the truth is every athlete does. They lost but internally they do not feel like a loser. And if they do then they better get over that or life is going to beat them down.
If these cheers are a form of bullying than we can call "life" a bully because it is not going to make everyone a winner.
Should we stop raising the winner's hand after the match. I mean doesn't that blatantly show that we are celebrating the winner and making sure everyone else knows the other wrestler is a loser?
I think facing that adversity and pressure and putting yourself on the line is what makes athletes more successful in many aspects of life."
I don't see how you are making this kind of extrapolation here. Games are still going to be won and lost. You can still cheer for your team.
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 13, 2016, 10:59:14 AM
If an athlete can't take some ribbing by the opposing team's fans then how they heck can they handle getting on the bus after the game/match is over and the ref has declared you to be the loser! Every competition makes somebody a LOSER! Every period, every play there is a winner and a loser! Deal with it and learn from it. And the truth is every athlete does. They lost but internally they do not feel like a loser. And if they do then they better get over that or life is going to beat them down.
If these cheers are a form of bullying than we can call "life" a bully because it is not going to make everyone a winner.
Should we stop raising the winner's hand after the match. I mean doesn't that blatantly show that we are celebrating the winner and making sure everyone else knows the other wrestler is a loser?
I think facing that adversity and pressure and putting yourself on the line is what makes athletes more successful in many aspects of life.
I think the issue is what the students are learning as fans. A loss of civility and respect in our society should be a concern for school personnel.
The Ashwaubenon student section sat through last night basketball game with duct tape over their mouths.
I love it.
Quote from: H. Hogan on January 13, 2016, 11:07:01 AM
The Ashwaubenon student section sat through last night basketball game with duct tape over their mouths.
I love it.
That's fantastic. I'm actually looking forward to hearing some of the stories about how students sections want to protest this in the next couple weeks. Kids can get pretty creative.
Quote from: crossface21 on January 13, 2016, 11:09:24 AM
Quote from: H. Hogan on January 13, 2016, 11:07:01 AM
The Ashwaubenon student section sat through last night basketball game with duct tape over their mouths.
I love it.
That's fantastic. I'm actually looking forward to hearing some of the stories about how students sections want to protest this in the next couple weeks. Kids can get pretty creative.
Problem solved! Bet the duct tape lobby was behind this movement. ;)
"I think the issue is what the students are learning as fans."
Are they learning something different than past generations learned? I agree there is a lack of respect for adults by many these days that never used to exist and there are many reasons for this- mostly by taking away parental and teacher rights to discipline or demand that respect. Society is getting less civil and I think that stems from social media and anonymous postings or posting and not having any real idea who is reading it or seeing their reaction.
But these cheers specifically mentioned by the WIAA have done no harm to anyone. Again, I want to see the complaints the WIAA was receiving on these issues from member schools? They serve the schools, not the parents, not even the athletes, etc.
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 13, 2016, 11:10:32 AM
Quote from: imnofish on January 13, 2016, 11:04:44 AM
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 13, 2016, 10:59:14 AM
If an athlete can't take some ribbing by the opposing team's fans then how they heck can they handle getting on the bus after the game/match is over and the ref has declared you to be the loser! Every competition makes somebody a LOSER! Every period, every play there is a winner and a loser! Deal with it and learn from it. And the truth is every athlete does. They lost but internally they do not feel like a loser. And if they do then they better get over that or life is going to beat them down.
If these cheers are a form of bullying than we can call "life" a bully because it is not going to make everyone a winner.
Should we stop raising the winner's hand after the match. I mean doesn't that blatantly show that we are celebrating the winner and making sure everyone else knows the other wrestler is a loser?
I think facing that adversity and pressure and putting yourself on the line is what makes athletes more successful in many aspects of life.
I think the issue is what the students are learning as fans. A loss of civility and respect in our society should be a concern for school personnel.
I've been to hundreds of wrestling events over the years. I can only think of one time where I thought the crowd atmosphere "crossed the line". Although, I've never been accused of having a delicate sensibility.
Yes, I've witnessed a few of those, too. Once, at Regionals, our kid was headbutted by another kid and literally knocked out. A fan literally ran up to the edge of the mat and cheered the kid for the head butt; subsequently cheering for him to "do it again." Back then, no repercussions for his actions. This was a great example for all those student athletes and student fans to follow, eh?
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 13, 2016, 11:14:55 AM
Quote from: imnofish on January 13, 2016, 11:11:15 AM
Quote from: crossface21 on January 13, 2016, 11:09:24 AM
Quote from: H. Hogan on January 13, 2016, 11:07:01 AM
The Ashwaubenon student section sat through last night basketball game with duct tape over their mouths.
I love it.
That's fantastic. I'm actually looking forward to hearing some of the stories about how students sections want to protest this in the next couple weeks. Kids can get pretty creative.
Problem solved! Bet the duct tape lobby was behind this movement. ;)
The duct tape lobby.....With their hidden hippie agenda.
Red Green is a commie agitator. ;D ;)
People are offended by too many things.....this is going to far....let the students have fun, cheer for their team and show school spirit.....this nit picking directive from the WIAA is out of line......then to add in they are monitoring high school kids twitter.....get real...thats a parental issue not a WIAA.
WIAA just sent out a retraction .
check out @wiaawi on twitter
ahhh Fan, I'm a DEM and i was upset as were Many, Many other DEM Parents I Personally know about this new rule, so that makes your post Nothing but an ""AIR BALL!"" :D
I agree that there have been things done in the stands that have been way over the top that have not been dealt with, and that's an issue. But it's a school issue that should be handled in that instance, not mandated from above.
Quote from: aarons23 on January 13, 2016, 11:20:33 AM
People are offended by too many things.....this is going to far....let the students have fun, cheer for their team and show school spirit.....this nit picking directive from the WIAA is out of line......then to add in they are monitoring high school kids twitter.....get real...thats a parental issue not a WIAA.
What if the kid tweets a threat?
It was NOT a directive, and not a rule. Does everyone get that?
When this thread began, I was picturing the student section when our high school won state in basketball my freshman year. The students had a blast cheering for their team. I think it was good, clean fun; the stuff great memories are made of. I'm pretty sure at some point in all that cheering, the word "air ball" was yelled. I didn't get the feeling then, or now, that any of the guys on the court that we were cheering for/against were hurt by the word "air ball".
On the other hand, if we're talking about younger kids, who are not mature, confident or particularly talented, being taunted by fans, that's a different scenario.
It would be cool if the WIAA could tell fans to just use common sense. :)
Then why did they send it out? Someone at the WIAA obviously perceived a state wide problem to send the memo out to every school.
Why did they care if it was not a directive or a rule? They wanted to remind all the schools? Were there some schools that needed reminding?
I am pretty sure they knew these chants have been condoned at virtually every school in the state. Were they trying to subtly tell everyone to squash them!
The problem was the examples that were given were harmless. "Air ball" and "scoreboard" are fans having fun, along with just about all the other examples they gave. Instead, if they had included examples that were offensive, nobody would've even noticed the story.
Quote from: lizard king on January 13, 2016, 11:45:55 AM
It was NOT a directive, and not a rule. Does everyone get that?
The mere suggestion is a little ludicrous. If some crowd went overboard, deal with it case-by-case. Obviously, the folks on here (me included) don't care if it was a directive or memo. The suggestion is silly. Sounds like nothing looking for a problem.
The conduct of a schools student section at a sporting event is the responsibility of that schools admin. An event or events in particular had to be the reason the the wiaa felt the need to address the issue. Imo the mistake made by them was to include all schools in addressing a "problem".
I do not understand what someone gets out of telling someone else that they should be offended. Warm fuzzys, a good night sleep. The memory of how a loss or failure feels to the individual is what motivates them.
I agree that the problem was that the examples they gave were poor, however, the intent was not her is a piece of the email;
"Heading into the new year with the holiday tournaments and conference schedules ramping up, and the winter sports Tournament Series soon to follow, we want to identify a point of emphasis for sportsmanship this season.
As we reviewed the fall tournaments and the sportsmanship evaluations and observations, we want to address concerns with a noticeable increase in the amount of chants by student sections directed at opponents and/or opponents' supporters that are clearly intended to taunt or disrespect."
Quote from: lizard king on January 13, 2016, 01:30:03 PM
I agree that the problem was that the examples they gave were poor, however, the intent was not her is a piece of the email;
"Heading into the new year with the holiday tournaments and conference schedules ramping up, and the winter sports Tournament Series soon to follow, we want to identify a point of emphasis for sportsmanship this season.
As we reviewed the fall tournaments and the sportsmanship evaluations and observations, we want to address concerns with a noticeable increase in the amount of chants by student sections directed at opponents and/or opponents' supporters that are clearly intended to taunt or disrespect."
And the WIAA specifically gave examples of chants that they seem to find offensive yet the overwhelming general public and the schools they represent do not find those chants to be offensive. That tells me they are trying to spread some sort of agenda.
I just find the WIAA funny. They were set up for the sole purpose of hosting and administering state championships and ruling eligibility. They have always stated they only care about determining a champion and could care less about giving more kids a great experience by allowing more to qualify for state or to allow any sports to compete after they lost for maybe 3rd place, etc. They have also routinely not cared about individual athletes with their rulings on eligbility. Yet here they want to pretend like they care about all student athlete feelings. I am sorry but I just do not support the WIAA and the way they do business and this is another episode. 3-4 individuals have all the power over the schools, the coaches associations, etc.
Quote from: imnofish on January 13, 2016, 11:16:49 AM
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 13, 2016, 11:10:32 AM
Quote from: imnofish on January 13, 2016, 11:04:44 AM
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 13, 2016, 10:59:14 AM
If an athlete can't take some ribbing by the opposing team's fans then how they heck can they handle getting on the bus after the game/match is over and the ref has declared you to be the loser! Every competition makes somebody a LOSER! Every period, every play there is a winner and a loser! Deal with it and learn from it. And the truth is every athlete does. They lost but internally they do not feel like a loser. And if they do then they better get over that or life is going to beat them down.
If these cheers are a form of bullying than we can call "life" a bully because it is not going to make everyone a winner.
Should we stop raising the winner's hand after the match. I mean doesn't that blatantly show that we are celebrating the winner and making sure everyone else knows the other wrestler is a loser?
I think facing that adversity and pressure and putting yourself on the line is what makes athletes more successful in many aspects of life.
I think the issue is what the students are learning as fans. A loss of civility and respect in our society should be a concern for school personnel.
I've been to hundreds of wrestling events over the years. I can only think of one time where I thought the crowd atmosphere "crossed the line". Although, I've never been accused of having a delicate sensibility.
Yes, I've witnessed a few of those, too. Once, at Regionals, our kid was headbutted by another kid and literally knocked out. A fan literally ran up to the edge of the mat and cheered the kid for the head butt; subsequently cheering for him to "do it again." Back then, no repercussions for his actions. This was a great example for all those student athletes and student fans to follow, eh?
And there it is....we somehow think students, or fans, are going to follow the example of that one guy.
I think there is a 1st Amendment issue. I also think there is a tremendous juxtaposition in today's world, we live in a lawless society, often our elected leaders are separated from the truth; we are focused on the truly little things.
Quote from: Ghetto on January 13, 2016, 09:49:32 AM
Wraslfan, miss the political threads? ::)
Not really. I'm sorry if that "offended" you. ;) Liberals
are the ones acting on this feel good garbage. Kind of hard to deny that. Just pointing out the obvious, if that's politically incorrect, I'm sorry.
Quote from: aarons23 on January 13, 2016, 11:20:33 AM
People are offended by too many things.....this is going to far....let the students have fun, cheer for their team and show school spirit.....this nit picking directive from the WIAA is out of line......then to add in they are monitoring high school kids twitter.....get real...thats a parental issue not a WIAA.
I agree Aaron. Well said.
This is not a new thing the WIAA just brought up. They have had some sort of policy governing sportsmanship since 1997. I talked with our AD about this and the WIAA sends out these memos a couple times a year. This one happened to be about sportsmanship and gave examples. I think it is unfair of everyone blasting the WIAA like they have been, and I have been outspoken about WIAA decisions in the past.
I can tell you at our school, we had a PBIS initiative about sportsmanship and how to act at events. It helped out the level of sportsmanship at our events a lot. It made the students think about what they were saying and it did great things. I just think that is what the WIAA was trying to do, just didn't get it across in the best manner.
Quote from: MNbadger on January 13, 2016, 10:30:14 AM
"Actually it's the WIAA and (democrat voting)" (absolutely no reason to make this claim)
Hmmm, supposedly no political stuff. Now, someone will be accused of being too thin skinned or "not able to take a joke" or "too sensitive".
All this after they get their jab in.
To play devil's advocate... many think it is ok to yell "air ball". How different is that than simply yelling "loser"?
I am guessing most would be ok with the former but not the latter. There is no really good reason for distiction between the two. The purpose of both is the same. Something to think about. We basically get down to splitting hairs as to what is ok or not ok.
The WIAA is not banning cheering for your team.
It's quite different than yelling loser. God bless you, MNbadger.
Quote from: lizard king on January 13, 2016, 01:30:03 PM
I agree that the problem was that the examples they gave were poor, however, the intent was not her is a piece of the email;
"Heading into the new year with the holiday tournaments and conference schedules ramping up, and the winter sports Tournament Series soon to follow, we want to identify a point of emphasis for sportsmanship this season.
As we reviewed the fall tournaments and the sportsmanship evaluations and observations, we want to address concerns with a noticeable increase in the amount of chants by student sections directed at opponents and/or opponents' supporters that are clearly intended to taunt or disrespect."
Interesting how taunting by athletes during competition is penalized, but so many are quick to defend doing it as spectators. ???
"It's quite different than yelling loser. God bless you, MNbadger."
Only by the slightest of degrees which is my point that you obviously missed or can't understand.
I don't need your meaningless blessing but knock yourself out if it makes you feel better.
Quote from: bkraus on January 13, 2016, 02:54:30 PM
This is not a new thing the WIAA just brought up. They have had some sort of policy governing sportsmanship since 1997. I talked with our AD about this and the WIAA sends out these memos a couple times a year. This one happened to be about sportsmanship and gave examples. I think it is unfair of everyone blasting the WIAA like they have been, and I have been outspoken about WIAA decisions in the past.
I can tell you at our school, we had a PBIS initiative about sportsmanship and how to act at events. It helped out the level of sportsmanship at our events a lot. It made the students think about what they were saying and it did great things. I just think that is what the WIAA was trying to do, just didn't get it across in the best manner.
+1
Quote from: MNbadger on January 13, 2016, 06:29:56 PM
"It's quite different than yelling loser. God bless you, MNbadger."
Only by the slightest of degrees which is my point that you obviously missed or can't understand.
I don't need your meaningless blessing but knock yourself out if it makes you feel better.
I didn't miss your hysterical angst, errrrr....your point. It's just that I don't waste my time trying so hard to
find something to be offended by, or creating something to worry about as (apparently) some like you do. I know it's all the rage now, but I don't care for it. I find yelling "AIRBALL" funny and it's also fun for the students cheering their school on. Kind of like when students stomp their feet in the stands when someone is put to their back in a wrestling match. If the athletes with that delicate an ego can't handle these scenarios, they should take up sewing, join choir, or find another hobby that won't ever create any embarrassment or criticism to harm their fragile minds.
Yelling "airball" (just one example) is nothing like stomping your feet. A very poor comparison at best.
You need to be intellectually honest here. Why do you ( does anyone) yell "airball" (again, just one example)? You are making fun of a player for missing the shot, or trying to encourage them to miss. Is this not taunting? I believe a player would be penalized for just such behavior.
As far as you thinking yelling "airball" funny that is enough said about you. Maybe someone else thinks yelling "loser" or "you suck" is funny (both of which I have heard at sporting events so people DO think these things are funny and appropriate).
And I think you are going way over the top in seeing any "hysterical angst" in my post. I am simply pointing out the weakness of your position on this.
Quote from: MNbadger on January 13, 2016, 09:27:21 PM
Yelling "airball" (just one example) is nothing like stomping your feet. A very poor comparison at best.
You need to be intellectually honest here. Why do you ( does anyone) yell "airball" (again, just one example)? You are making fun of a player for missing the shot, or trying to encourage them to miss. Is this not taunting? I believe a player would be penalized for just such behavior.
As far as you thinking yelling "airball" funny that is enough said about you. Maybe someone else thinks yelling "loser" or "you suck" is funny.
You are being way too judgemental. ....and certainly overboard on your line of thinking on this....your not looking for a position on the WIAA board are you......every chant mentioned in the wiaa letter was nothing to be offended about. Lifes not rainbows and unicorns.....especially not sports. My daughter gets it all the time when she gets a foul or shoots an airball ( actually this chant doesnt happen that often) . Two weeks ago my daughter fouled out.....the entire crowd errupted in cheers. ...at first it bothered me that grown adults would cheer this....but then I realized it was truly a comiment to her and her ability. After the game I asked her about it. She said "dad i dont pay attention to that.....they are just cheering on their team and having fun"
Quote from: wraslfan on January 13, 2016, 02:40:45 PM
Quote from: Ghetto on January 13, 2016, 09:49:32 AM
Wraslfan, miss the political threads? ::)
Not really. I'm sorry if that "offended" you. ;) Liberals are the ones acting on this feel good garbage. Kind of hard to deny that. Just pointing out the obvious, if that's politically incorrect, I'm sorry.
typical from your side, point out what to fear and who to fear but have no real solution about to extort fear!
I have no problem with letting the kids have some fun. Certain chants and such for a parent I actually enjoy them during a game. I like watching the home teams fans and such.
I do have a problem with parents and students getting real personal or out and out taunting an opposing athlete. No just for it and plus they are high school kids.
This has become a laughing stock situation on Minnesota radio. Heck even the KARE 11 anchor Randy Shaver was speachless when told about these so called bands!
I also cannt help but laugh at the weekly or bi-weekly emails I get forwarded to me about what the WIAA wants. Certain undergarments, what they can wear or not or how those kids should act. Really is the WIAA the moral police also?
I say the WIAA should worry about making sure they championships are set and have guidelines and then leave it up to the schools for they just plain stupid stuff.
Schools have a responsibility to help students learn to be productive, respectful adults. Failure to provide guidance in that regard leads to less self-control in a variety of settings, including the classroom. The kids see the athletic facilities as a part of their overall school, so attitudes and behaviors in one part of the school tend to also appear in other areas. School leaders have the challenge of creating and maintaining a culture of responsibility and respect, so students are more likely to succeed socially and academically. We adults see school athletic events as an entertainment source, thus mirroring our attitudes and actions as pro sports fans. In reality, they are not the same. They have different purposes and are really focused on different beneficiaries. I think we ought to at least be able to acknowledge that and appreciate the intent of the WIAA, however misguided we might perceive it to be.
Quote from: littleguy301 on January 13, 2016, 10:25:37 PM
Quote from: wraslfan on January 13, 2016, 02:40:45 PM
Quote from: Ghetto on January 13, 2016, 09:49:32 AM
Wraslfan, miss the political threads? ::)
Not really. I'm sorry if that "offended" you. ;) Liberals are the ones acting on this feel good garbage. Kind of hard to deny that. Just pointing out the obvious, if that's politically incorrect, I'm sorry.
typical from your side, point out what to fear and who to fear but have no real solution about to extort fear!
I have no problem with letting the kids have some fun. Certain chants and such for a parent I actually enjoy them during a game. I like watching the home teams fans and such.
I do have a problem with parents and students getting real personal or out and out taunting an opposing athlete. No just for it and plus they are high school kids.
This has become a laughing stock situation on Minnesota radio. Heck even the KARE 11 anchor Randy Shaver was speachless when told about these so called bands!
I also cannt help but laugh at the weekly or bi-weekly emails I get forwarded to me about what the WIAA wants. Certain undergarments, what they can wear or not or how those kids should act. Really is the WIAA the moral police also?
I say the WIAA should worry about making sure they championships are set and have guidelines and then leave it up to the schools for they just plain stupid stuff.
Typical of "my side" to point out the facts? My point (though annoying to you and your side) is true. These idiotic rules are always done from "your side"....always. Why would I, or anyone propose a solution when there isn't a problem? That's what the WIAA did here. They made up a problem. Like I said, they are looking for something to be offended by. This has become a national laughing stock, not just in MN. The only two people I can find that think this is a good idea are MNbadger and Imnofish. They are entitled their opinion, but I'm entitled to disagree. You apparently feel the same way I do about the ruling, it's just that you don't like that I accurately pointed out the people that are responsible for these types of rules.
I am thinking this is getting blown WAY OUT OF PROPORTION,
The WIAA simply sent out a reminder about sportsmanship and frankly reasonable behavior. Each School Diatrict has the responsibility to enforce rules in thier house. Most Districts do good job of this. Let's not get carried away on this. The original issue social media and total disrespect and vulgar language just brought to the surface a real issue that being social media. The WIAA does not have the authority to circumvent the 1st Amendment of the Consistution nor are they trying too. They just want to remind everyone that using vulgar language in a chant etc is poor behavior and poor sportsmanship. It not like they have 1000 special agents to enforce some unenforceable edict.
Calm down its just a memo.
Our society is SOOOOOOO overprotective it's just obscene.
Sending a reminder to use good sportsmanship is being responsible.
Sending out a memo on what the WIAA feels would NOT be good sportsmanship is within their control and the majority have "voted" that they disagree with the words the WIAA finds NOT good sportsmanship.
Could you imagine if the NCAA told Duke they couldn't jump up and down while the opponent is shooting free throws?
Blair Walsh needs it quiet to kick his game winning field goal :)
I believe the WIAA over-reacted, and significantly. I think the national attention to the WIAA over-reaction is well deserved. Sometimes life in the bubble needs to be questioned, this is one of those times.
Love the duct tape over the mouths. Creative, fun; point made. Reminds me of the time the Lodi H.S. student body put tape on their backsides before the forced "Day of Silence" pep rally.
My Uncle was on the Board of Controls for the WIAA years ago, very much looking forward to lunch on Monday with him, will be interested to learn of his perspective.
Did anybody tell Iowa before they come to the Kohl Center tomorrow night? And, suggest a big soda over/under bet for the first taker...how many more Iowa fans will be in attendance than Wisconsin fans?
To be honest the NCAA and NBA are not WIAA. High school is very different from college and professional sports.
Instead of "airball", is it fair to yell 'miss" and clap any time a HS basketball player misses?
I can honestly say I have not ever done any of these type of chants at games (including when I was younger but to be up front, you'd never see me at a basketball game anyway). I try to cheer for my team and cheer a great takedown, escape or goal.
No one is saying you can't cheer. Odds are people will still yell "airball" but if you are honest with yourself you know this is a negative thing to do. Just because we have always done it does not make it ok. Just because you find it fun does not make it ok either History is full of examples.
Overall this really means little to me. I just have trouble when I see people screaming and squealing, trying to justify their actions and defend something while not being intellectually honest.
Quote from: wraslfan on January 14, 2016, 06:54:45 AM
Quote from: littleguy301 on January 13, 2016, 10:25:37 PM
Quote from: wraslfan on January 13, 2016, 02:40:45 PM
Quote from: Ghetto on January 13, 2016, 09:49:32 AM
Wraslfan, miss the political threads? ::)
Not really. I'm sorry if that "offended" you. ;) Liberals are the ones acting on this feel good garbage. Kind of hard to deny that. Just pointing out the obvious, if that's politically incorrect, I'm sorry.
typical from your side, point out what to fear and who to fear but have no real solution about to extort fear!
I have no problem with letting the kids have some fun. Certain chants and such for a parent I actually enjoy them during a game. I like watching the home teams fans and such.
I do have a problem with parents and students getting real personal or out and out taunting an opposing athlete. No just for it and plus they are high school kids.
This has become a laughing stock situation on Minnesota radio. Heck even the KARE 11 anchor Randy Shaver was speachless when told about these so called bands!
I also cannt help but laugh at the weekly or bi-weekly emails I get forwarded to me about what the WIAA wants. Certain undergarments, what they can wear or not or how those kids should act. Really is the WIAA the moral police also?
I say the WIAA should worry about making sure they championships are set and have guidelines and then leave it up to the schools for they just plain stupid stuff.
Typical of "my side" to point out the facts? My point (though annoying to you and your side) is true. These idiotic rules are always done from "your side"....always. Why would I, or anyone propose a solution when there isn't a problem? That's what the WIAA did here. They made up a problem. Like I said, they are looking for something to be offended by. This has become a national laughing stock, not just in MN. The only two people I can find that think this is a good idea are MNbadger and Imnofish. They are entitled their opinion, but I'm entitled to disagree. You apparently feel the same way I do about the ruling, it's just that you don't like that I accurately pointed out the people that are responsible for these types of rules.
"MY SIDE" what the heck? I have clearly stated I do NOT mind these things, I only mind when they get personal from parents or students no need from that. Also group swearing chants at the high school level are out for me but have fun with airball and ones like that.
So easy to point out what is wrong, who is as fault but offer not substance of your own.
Quote from: bigoil on January 14, 2016, 09:39:35 AM
Sending a reminder to use good sportsmanship is being responsible.
Sending out a memo on what the WIAA feels would NOT be good sportsmanship is within their control and the majority have "voted" that they disagree with the words the WIAA finds NOT good sportsmanship.
Could you imagine if the NCAA told Duke they couldn't jump up and down while the opponent is shooting free throws?
Blair Walsh needs it quiet to kick his game winning field goal :)
Ha ha the point being everyone is pretty much ignoring the edict.
As far the WIAA overreacting; who has seen the memo? What precisely does it say? Word for word.
Google it ram. It reminds of sportsmanship then goes on to list such chants as airball, etc.
...common Fan, ""Liberals are the ones acting on this feel good garbage"" ::) Dude your better than that, and it's ridiculous that you even go there, I have no idea, nor do you as to what these folks believing in or what they are that set this rule in place... we here down in Milton know all to well about what Offended some or shall I say ONE Person!... >:(
Quote from: maggie on January 14, 2016, 01:05:09 PM
...common Fan, ""Liberals are the ones acting on this feel good garbage"" ::) Dude your better than that, and it's ridiculous that you even go there, I have no idea, nor do you as to what these folks believing in or what they are that set this rule in place... we here down in Milton know all to well about what Offended some or shall I say ONE Person!... >:(
Maggie, how the heck are you, bud? I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to Milton?...Mascot? I already know I can't offend you so it's not worth trying. ;D All I know is what was said / suggested by the WIAA and it's pretty well known where they stand on issue's. It doesn't mean everyone agrees with them. I don't know why it's sooo "offensive" to point that out. Are you saying some over the top, helicopter parents didn't complain? Or, it was just the goal of the WIAA to be proactively offended and politically correct?
Quote from: bigoil on January 14, 2016, 12:15:01 PM
Google it ram. It reminds of sportsmanship then goes on to list such chants as airball, etc.
Quote from WIAA tweet:
"To be clear... there has been NO new directives, NO new rules, NO new mandates, NO new enforcement expectations. "
OVERBLOWN the entire thing is OVERBLOWN
Best commercial on TV; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-gwjJ_NXKU (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-gwjJ_NXKU)
Fish, to answer your question about the mascot name, it was a bucket of crap the way it was done, that's all i will say about it.. >:( sadly, it got worse, just a few weeks before school started this yr, a very nice Memorial sign that was put up yrs ago in honor of a very Well known, loyal Maintenance work Lyle Thomson who had passed, was mysteriously taken down, Questions were asked and nobody from the high school when asked about it then,Teachers, maintenance workers or even school administrators had an answer to it's where about's or who may taken it down when asked :o ...however, while reffing a summer baseball game, one of the officials went into the ball shed at Schilberg Park to look for the bases or whatever, noticed that far in the back somewhat hidden, was the sign ..the official who also works at a local Pub was well aware of what he has stumbled upon, because Thomson's son and his wife frequent the Est quite frequently for lunch and they we really upset that it had been taken down as was almost every person in town, they received no calls from anybody as to why it was taken down....fast forward a week and after the cat was let out as to it's where about's, the school administrator changed his tune saying, ""It was a miscommunication on my part that the family was not notified before the sign came down," Schigur said. "I own that. That's my fault."..a little to late!.then a few weeks later, he can up with another Idea or what i call an Lane excuse for not telling the truth, saying, "" we were going to create a walk of fame, or a historical display of sorts. We've used several different names here, to honor the history of Milton and some of the accomplishments on Anderson Field." ::)..then went as far as to say that ""the memorial won't be completed until next summer. The district doesn't want to complete the memorial only to have to move it if the district's facilities change""... :D..as for the Thomson's and every body else in town,... "We don't believe that the sign will ever be put anywhere. We figured that it was just basically thrown in the maintenance shed and that's where it's going to lay," Karen Thomson said. "I still don't believe that they're going to do anything because everybody has told us a different story. We found it very upsetting and very disrespectful to the memory of someone." ....Unreal ha, ...never know who ya can trust anymore... >:(
Fan you behave or I'll have to give ya a HEART PUNCH!... :o
"Not wanting to restrict creativity or enjoyment, an enthusiastic and boisterous display of support for a school's team is welcomed and encouraged at interscholastic events when directed in a positive manner," he wrote. "However, any action directed at opposing teams or their spectators with the intent to taunt, disrespect, distract or entice an unsporting behavior in a response is not acceptable sportsmanship. Student groups, school administrators and event managers should take immediate steps to correct this unsporting behavior."
Clark cited recent examples of "unsporting behavior" including chants like '"You can't do that," "Fundamentals," "Airball," "There's a net there," "Sieve," "We Can't Hear You," the "scoreboard" cheer, and "Season's Over" during tournament series play.'
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 14, 2016, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: bigoil on January 14, 2016, 09:39:35 AM
Could you imagine if the NCAA told Duke they couldn't jump up and down while the opponent is shooting free throws?
I still hate Christian Laettner.
I think that cheer was banned as well. As long as your internet isn't filtered here is a link to the film ESPN film version
http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=ihatechristianlaettner
yes, SHE did only after she turned in her Essay on the subject to the UW Madison! >:(...it all it was about....
WOW, now yelling AIR BALL is offensive, heck that seems so small compared to what we have all seen in the past, I remember watching Pat Ewing in the 84 NCAA National Championship game against Houston, the Houston Fans were the worst! and were a disgrace to there school, they were tossing Bananas at the back of the backboard when Ewing would go to the line to shoot free throws..
Ok truth be told. I remember you sitting on the Wisconsin Rapids side when Milton beat them for the State title. That should be banned. ;D ;) :o
Quote from: MarkK on January 14, 2016, 03:12:13 PM
Ok truth be told. I remember you sitting on the Wisconsin Rapids side when Milton beat them for the State title. That should be banned. ;D ;) :o
There is now an ordinance in Wisconsin Rapids banning just such a specific thing...
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 14, 2016, 03:50:54 PM
Quote from: Dale Einerson on January 14, 2016, 03:34:47 PM
Quote from: MarkK on January 14, 2016, 03:12:13 PM
Ok truth be told. I remember you sitting on the Wisconsin Rapids side when Milton beat them for the State title. That should be banned. ;D ;) :o
There is now an ordinance in Wisconsin Rapids banning just such a specific thing...
Stop picking on maggie, the guy gets excited.
I had no influence on this ordinance, it was B.D. in Rapids.
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 14, 2016, 05:23:48 PM
Quote from: Dale Einerson on January 14, 2016, 04:02:03 PM
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 14, 2016, 03:50:54 PM
Quote from: Dale Einerson on January 14, 2016, 03:34:47 PM
Quote from: MarkK on January 14, 2016, 03:12:13 PM
Ok truth be told. I remember you sitting on the Wisconsin Rapids side when Milton beat them for the State title. That should be banned. ;D ;) :o
There is now an ordinance in Wisconsin Rapids banning just such a specific thing...
Stop picking on maggie, the guy gets excited.
I had no influence on this ordinance, it was B.D. in Rapids.
BD?
Before Dale
Of course you mean. BMD
i was up there talking to Friend Mark, after talking to him and wishing him good luck, i left and went and sat on the lower bleachers with my Bro,The young Crass Boys, The Milton AD and of course our Biggest Student Fan, our Football playing West Point Appointee Pete Bier, who Happen to be Dangling a Noose on a stick Wrapped around a puppets neck.. :o...the AD tried desperately to grab the darn thing from him, but he just wasn't tough enough!. :D and was rushed off by security and tossed out!...i think that's what happen anyways.. :o
I was there Maggie and remember it well. Lots of history has been rewritten
At a wrestling meet tonight - when the announcer said that a team was forfeiting a weight, a few people in the stands started chanting "Air Ball, Air Ball". The whole crowd started laughing and many joined in. Way to poke fun at the WIAA.
Quote from: ramjet on January 14, 2016, 08:06:55 AM
I am thinking this is getting blown WAY OUT OF PROPORTION,
The WIAA simply sent out a reminder about sportsmanship and frankly reasonable behavior. Each School Diatrict has the responsibility to enforce rules in thier house. Most Districts do good job of this. Let's not get carried away on this. The original issue social media and total disrespect and vulgar language just brought to the surface a real issue that being social media. The WIAA does not have the authority to circumvent the 1st Amendment of the Consistution nor are they trying too. They just want to remind everyone that using vulgar language in a chant etc is poor behavior and poor sportsmanship. It not like they have 1000 special agents to enforce some unenforceable edict.
Calm down its just a memo.
Our society is SOOOOOOO overprotective it's just obscene.
Good post, Ram. I agree with you about this whole thing being overblown. Never knew you were such a hippie, though. ;D
Quote from: imnofish on January 14, 2016, 10:39:12 PM
Quote from: ramjet on January 14, 2016, 08:06:55 AM
I am thinking this is getting blown WAY OUT OF PROPORTION,
The WIAA simply sent out a reminder about sportsmanship and frankly reasonable behavior. Each School Diatrict has the responsibility to enforce rules in thier house. Most Districts do good job of this. Let's not get carried away on this. The original issue social media and total disrespect and vulgar language just brought to the surface a real issue that being social media. The WIAA does not have the authority to circumvent the 1st Amendment of the Consistution nor are they trying too. They just want to remind everyone that using vulgar language in a chant etc is poor behavior and poor sportsmanship. It not like they have 1000 special agents to enforce some unenforceable edict.
Calm down its just a memo.
Our society is SOOOOOOO overprotective it's just obscene.
Good post, Ram. I agree with you about this whole thing being overblown. Never knew you were such a hippie, though. ;D
hippie ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I agree with that. I also do think that some do think the WIAA as "godlike" in some of their stances which in turn leads to some issues like this.
I have not been happy with the WIAA but being an adult I show more restrain but I have to admit that I may have felt like saying that at one time or another.
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 14, 2016, 07:39:55 PM
Quote from: maggie on January 14, 2016, 07:04:54 PM
i was up there talking to Friend Mark, after talking to him and wishing him good luck, i left and went and sat on the lower bleachers with my Bro,The young Crass Boys, The Milton AD and of course our Biggest Student Fan, our Football playing West Point Appointee Pete Bier, who Happen to be Dangling a Noose on a stick Wrapped around a puppets neck.. :o...the AD tried desperately to grab the darn thing from him, but he just wasn't tough enough!. :D and was rushed off by security and tossed out!...i think that's what happen anyways.. :o
A puppet? Like one of those creepy ventriloquist dummy's? What the heck?
Not exactly a stellar example of sportsmanshiip. Needless to say they didn't win the sportsmanship award that year. But no letter went out either about the inappropriate uses of puppets. Air Doll Air Doll
... :o Oh, but we did Fish... :) NO, it was not very sportsman like Mark, however, it was Funny as heck and all in fun and nobody got hurt...the WIAA has Portrayed our states kids as JETS/PHIL Fans for some reason and that's just not right, even Skip Bayless mentioned them on ESPN's First Take sports talk show, even he was upset about it ... :o
Maggie may be bombastic but he is not wrong here. Milton did beat rapids in a great battle. All won by unsung heroes. The highlight was watching Josh Wagner bump up to wrestle trite. A battle of state champs. Wagner lost but it was great. Win or lose that match Milton had already secured the win. Coach Benitez was not happy with Bob Johnson with that decision. It was electric. The dummy incident should not be any part of the focus because that match was great. Maggie is right but he did stay on the Rapids side longer than he admits. Truth is I think he actually does have friends over there. Maybe.
Quote from: Wrestlologist on January 14, 2016, 10:30:02 PM
At a wrestling meet tonight - when the announcer said that a team was forfeiting a weight, a few people in the stands started chanting "Air Ball, Air Ball". The whole crowd started laughing and many joined in. Way to poke fun at the WIAA.
That's hilarious and exactly why this is no big deal. Nice little display of civil disobedience.
I did have a friend over there, I believe he was the owner of a Joint i used to frequent while working up there, maybe the old Body-shop? Boons? the Buck Rub or maybe Ida's, not really sure of what Est, but he was a nice guy and like to talk wrestling.....then the WR Fans became rabid towards me!...so i simply left and went on my way to join the fun!.. ;)...the rest is as we say, History!... :)
I like 'em better than clowns and mimes. But, I feel ya, those dummies freak me out. Eeesh!
Good post, Rocky!
It is stimulating to feel that level of hate. Then, it's nice to leave.
:D....
I propose a new cheer - the WIAA Bronx Cheer
W-I-A-A (Clap-Clap-Clap,Clap,Clap)
Apparently they want to promote themselves, so we can all help everytime we do not like the ref's call.
Quote from: MarkK on January 11, 2016, 04:28:21 PM
obviously the pen is much mightier than (pick your poison). Saying the king has no clothes is dangerous.
Tweeting pics of it might be problematic, though.
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 15, 2016, 07:11:31 AM
Quote from: MarkK on January 15, 2016, 06:45:26 AM
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 14, 2016, 07:39:55 PM
Quote from: maggie on January 14, 2016, 07:04:54 PM
i was up there talking to Friend Mark, after talking to him and wishing him good luck, i left and went and sat on the lower bleachers with my Bro,The young Crass Boys, The Milton AD and of course our Biggest Student Fan, our Football playing West Point Appointee Pete Bier, who Happen to be Dangling a Noose on a stick Wrapped around a puppets neck.. :o...the AD tried desperately to grab the darn thing from him, but he just wasn't tough enough!. :D and was rushed off by security and tossed out!...i think that's what happen anyways.. :o
A puppet? Like one of those creepy ventriloquist dummy's? What the heck?
Not exactly a stellar example of sportsmanshiip. Needless to say they didn't win the sportsmanship award that year. But no letter went out either about the inappropriate uses of puppets. Air Doll Air Doll
I'm sceptical? Milton never beat Rapids either.
Good thing this didn't happen at the Field House or the Kohl Center, where air dolls are banned.
Quote from: imnofish on January 15, 2016, 08:57:13 AM
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 15, 2016, 07:11:31 AM
Quote from: MarkK on January 15, 2016, 06:45:26 AM
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 14, 2016, 07:39:55 PM
Quote from: maggie on January 14, 2016, 07:04:54 PM
i was up there talking to Friend Mark, after talking to him and wishing him good luck, i left and went and sat on the lower bleachers with my Bro,The young Crass Boys, The Milton AD and of course our Biggest Student Fan, our Football playing West Point Appointee Pete Bier, who Happen to be Dangling a Noose on a stick Wrapped around a puppets neck.. :o...the AD tried desperately to grab the darn thing from him, but he just wasn't tough enough!. :D and was rushed off by security and tossed out!...i think that's what happen anyways.. :o
A puppet? Like one of those creepy ventriloquist dummy's? What the heck?
Not exactly a stellar example of sportsmanshiip. Needless to say they didn't win the sportsmanship award that year. But no letter went out either about the inappropriate uses of puppets. Air Doll Air Doll
I'm sceptical? Milton never beat Rapids either.
Good thing this didn't happen at the Field House or the Kohl Center, where air dolls are banned.
Coach, please tell me you meant "air balls" - if not who would bring an air doll and why would you know that they are banned???? LOL!!
I was at my nephews basketball game last night and with about a minute left in the first half the opposing team started holding the ball in a stalling move. My buddy sitting beside me says to me boring boring I looked at him and said you better watch out they will throw you outta here. The ref was standing close enough he heard me. He started laughing at us and said now thats funny stuff right there.
WIAA is so soft...
http://host.madison.com/sports/high-school/video-espn-s-scott-van-pelt-criticizes-wiaa-guidelines-on/html_79ebbb1f-ab22-5a59-bc0a-e112ceff6680.html
Quote from: NoFear on January 15, 2016, 03:38:25 PM
WIAA is so soft...
http://host.madison.com/sports/high-school/video-espn-s-scott-van-pelt-criticizes-wiaa-guidelines-on/html_79ebbb1f-ab22-5a59-bc0a-e112ceff6680.html
I wish all of you who rip on the WIAA could sit in my seat. I am a Private Contractor. I sit on many meetings with the WIAA, and all they really care about is the athletes experience.
Woody intent is no substitute for common sense and they really blew it on this one the backlash is at National Level they screwed up BIG TIME.
Woody
So this is what sports has come too worried about feelings for athletes. That is what athletics builds is strong minded individuals that will succeed in life. The real world is not about feelings. If I can't compete at my job I will be replaced... aka SCOREBOARD
Quote from: woody53 on January 15, 2016, 04:16:01 PM
Quote from: NoFear on January 15, 2016, 03:38:25 PM
WIAA is so soft...
http://host.madison.com/sports/high-school/video-espn-s-scott-van-pelt-criticizes-wiaa-guidelines-on/html_79ebbb1f-ab22-5a59-bc0a-e112ceff6680.html
I wish all of you who rip on the WIAA could sit in my seat. I am a Private Contractor. I sit on many meetings with the WIAA, and all they really care about is the athletes experience.
I have no doubt that the athlete's experience is their focus. I am confident they never expected this backlash, and I have no doubt their intention was good. They are subjected to crazy parents and are bombarded with the social / political pressures like the rest of us...no matter how insane, or inane the latest bat crap crazy idea is. We live in a PC nightmare of a world. The WIAA must have thought that the public actually agreed with the perpetually offended morons peddling this kind of PC idiocy. They seem to have admitted their mistake and backed off the suggestion, I give them credit for that, most double down.
Quote from: NoFear on January 15, 2016, 08:21:56 PM
Woody
So this is what sports has come too worried about feelings for athletes. That is what athletics builds is strong minded individuals that will succeed in life.
Not any more. The wamsy pansies are setting our kids up for failure in life.
Kyle
Quote from: ElectricGuy on January 15, 2016, 11:59:29 AM
Quote from: imnofish on January 15, 2016, 08:57:13 AM
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 15, 2016, 07:11:31 AM
Quote from: MarkK on January 15, 2016, 06:45:26 AM
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 14, 2016, 07:39:55 PM
Quote from: maggie on January 14, 2016, 07:04:54 PM
i was up there talking to Friend Mark, after talking to him and wishing him good luck, i left and went and sat on the lower bleachers with my Bro,The young Crass Boys, The Milton AD and of course our Biggest Student Fan, our Football playing West Point Appointee Pete Bier, who Happen to be Dangling a Noose on a stick Wrapped around a puppets neck.. :o...the AD tried desperately to grab the darn thing from him, but he just wasn't tough enough!. :D and was rushed off by security and tossed out!...i think that's what happen anyways.. :o
A puppet? Like one of those creepy ventriloquist dummy's? What the heck?
Not exactly a stellar example of sportsmanshiip. Needless to say they didn't win the sportsmanship award that year. But no letter went out either about the inappropriate uses of puppets. Air Doll Air Doll
I'm sceptical? Milton never beat Rapids either.
Good thing this didn't happen at the Field House or the Kohl Center, where air dolls are banned.
Coach, please tell me you meant "air balls" - if not who would bring an air doll and why would you know that they are banned???? LOL!!
A couple of times, before the State Finals, someone inflated a doll and started tossing her around among all the beach balls. The guards took it away. No, I wasn't the one who did it. Have to admit to chuckling about it, though.
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 15, 2016, 03:44:49 PM
Quote from: ElectricGuy on January 15, 2016, 11:59:29 AM
Quote from: imnofish on January 15, 2016, 08:57:13 AM
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 15, 2016, 07:11:31 AM
Quote from: MarkK on January 15, 2016, 06:45:26 AM
Quote from: The Angry Fish on January 14, 2016, 07:39:55 PM
Quote from: maggie on January 14, 2016, 07:04:54 PM
i was up there talking to Friend Mark, after talking to him and wishing him good luck, i left and went and sat on the lower bleachers with my Bro,The young Crass Boys, The Milton AD and of course our Biggest Student Fan, our Football playing West Point Appointee Pete Bier, who Happen to be Dangling a Noose on a stick Wrapped around a puppets neck.. :o...the AD tried desperately to grab the darn thing from him, but he just wasn't tough enough!. :D and was rushed off by security and tossed out!...i think that's what happen anyways.. :o
A puppet? Like one of those creepy ventriloquist dummy's? What the heck?
Not exactly a stellar example of sportsmanshiip. Needless to say they didn't win the sportsmanship award that year. But no letter went out either about the inappropriate uses of puppets. Air Doll Air Doll
I'm sceptical? Milton never beat Rapids either.
Good thing this didn't happen at the Field House or the Kohl Center, where air dolls are banned.
Coach, please tell me you meant "air balls" - if not who would bring an air doll and why would you know that they are banned???? LOL!!
Hey fish, do us a favor and keep your inflated friends home where they belong. ;D ;D ;D
There you go projecting again. ;D
Quote from: woody53 on January 15, 2016, 04:16:01 PM
Quote from: NoFear on January 15, 2016, 03:38:25 PM
WIAA is so soft...
http://host.madison.com/sports/high-school/video-espn-s-scott-van-pelt-criticizes-wiaa-guidelines-on/html_79ebbb1f-ab22-5a59-bc0a-e112ceff6680.html
I wish all of you who rip on the WIAA could sit in my seat. I am a Private Contractor. I sit on many meetings with the WIAA, and all they really care about is the athletes experience.
I was wondering how you were perceiving this situation. Not sure why anyone would assume anything else about them, unless they just dislike authority figures.
Let's keep it straight here the authority figure is the schools. The WIAA is a private corporation organization that the schools contract with to organize their athletic programs. That is it. The schools are government entities and have a form of authority. The WIAA as a private corporation organization should have no authority to restrict free speech in any community. The edit while promoting good sportsmanship was beyond its authority and stepped into defining free speech and carried with some sort of quasi governmental authority which the WIAA is not. At the least it was an I'll advised memorandum used to modify behavior that is best done elsewhere.
Ha, it's like all other Crap we see changing in Wis today, the WIAA is no different, they are not obligated anymore to come out and tell us who did what or who said what to who or who called who on business hrs, it's simply keep between them, heck, If i were to guess, Id say they more than likely already erased all the Messages off there cell phones as to who started all this crap...--------Between-------- ;)
Quote from: maggie on January 16, 2016, 02:55:03 PM
Ha, it's like all other Crap we see changing in Wis today, the WIAA is no different, they are not obligated anymore to come out and tell us who did what or who said what to who or who called who on business hrs, it's simply keep between them, heck, If i were to guess, Id say they more than likely already erased all the Messages off there cell phones as to who started all this crap...--------Between-------- ;)
I think it was some liberal😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀
SAD Isn't it?...
Here ya' go. More discussion fodder. Chew on this for awhile...
http://host.madison.com/ct/sports/high-school/after-public-ridicule-of-sportsmanship-memo-wiaa-director-says-group/article_82c00e4c-e000-582a-8714-4c92142ef263.html#utm_source=host.madison.com&utm_campaign=%2Femail%2Fpreps%2F&utm_medium=email&utm_content=read%20more
Hilarious.
Yes really. It is hilarious.
How so? Explain.
Quote from: woody53 on January 18, 2016, 04:22:14 PM
How so? Explain.
+1 I would also love to be enlightened about this.
Im not sure about hilarious, but I did find it quite amusing in the way he carefully used his words and deflected it back on "the members" that they have "been asking for this". Also stating that this memo "was no different than any other year". I would like to know if every other year they had specifics such as "air ball" in the memo.
Also disappointed no mention by Gousha or Anderson of the reason this is in the headlines. The "strong arm" tactics used to intimidate the district to suspend student for free speech against the WIAA.
Quote from: imnofish on January 18, 2016, 07:57:59 PM
Quote from: woody53 on January 18, 2016, 04:22:14 PM
How so? Explain.
+1 I would also love to be enlightened about this.
He states "I think what we hope for is finding that balance between fun and still something that absolutely is educational." What?!?! It's a BASKETBALL GAME. Fans are there to cheer, not educated.
Quote from: wraslfan on January 18, 2016, 09:57:36 PM
Fans are there to cheer, not educated.
So Interscholastic Sports is not an extension of the classroom?
Quote from: wrestling for fun on January 18, 2016, 09:35:08 PM
Also disappointed no mention by Gousha or Anderson of the reason this is in the headlines. The "strong arm" tactics used to intimidate the district to suspend student for free speech against the WIAA.
What was the "Strong Arm" Tactic used here?
Quote from: woody53 on January 19, 2016, 05:57:31 AM
Quote from: wrestling for fun on January 18, 2016, 09:35:08 PM
Also disappointed no mention by Gousha or Anderson of the reason this is in the headlines. The "strong arm" tactics used to intimidate the district to suspend student for free speech against the WIAA.
What was the "Strong Arm" Tactic used here?
Quite possibly it isn't just this example but a pattern of decisions and edicts handed down over time and people are frustrated. Maybe the people want the WIAA to understand that they exist to serve to schools and the athletes. It isn't the other way around.
So the WIAA should not have rules about proper conduct at events?
I still want someone to explain to me how yelling "airball" while or after a player shoots is not negative (there are many other negative cheers as well, lt's just be clear how we are defending this one). "Because we always have" is not a valid explanation either.
Quote from: woody53 on January 19, 2016, 05:55:22 AM
Quote from: wraslfan on January 18, 2016, 09:57:36 PM
Fans are there to cheer, not educated.
So Interscholastic Sports is not an extension of the classroom?
The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom. Is the role of the WIAA to educate? (I thought that was the role of teachers) Is their role to monitor kids twitter accounts? To suspend athletes a ridiculous amount of time for being critical of the WIAA? In case you aren't aware, that suspension bothers a LOT of people as much as the hysterical concern over cheers. Some people / organizations really must relish in the power that comes with their role...or have really think skin. It's not like she said a prayer before the game.
Quote from: wraslfan on January 19, 2016, 06:27:24 AM
Quote from: woody53 on January 19, 2016, 05:55:22 AM
Quote from: wraslfan on January 18, 2016, 09:57:36 PM
Fans are there to cheer, not educated.
So Interscholastic Sports is not an extension of the classroom?
The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom. Is the role of the WIAA to educate? (I thought that was the role of teachers) Is their role to monitor kids twitter accounts? To suspend athletes a ridiculous amount of time for being critical of the WIAA? In case you aren't aware, that suspension bothers a LOT of people as much as the hysterical concern over cheers. Some people / organizations really must relish in the power that comes with their role...or have really think skin. It's not like she said a prayer before the game.
To make clear. The WIAA does not "monitor Twitter Accounts. It was brought to their attention. They forward the information to the School. The suspension came from the school district, not the WIAA. You defined your understanding of this in your first sentence.
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 06:23:50 AM
So the WIAA should not have rules about proper conduct at events?
I still want someone to explain to me how yelling "airball" while or after a player shoots is not negative (there are many other negative cheers as well, lt's just be clear how we are defending this one). "Because we always have" is not a valid explanation either.
Of course they should have rules about proper conduct. Who said they shouldn't? As info, shooting an air ball is a negative thing...surprisingly, basketball players know this too. Do you want to ban coaches from yelling at their athletes for mistakes? After all, that might hurt the athletes precious little ego's? Most athletes are not as wimpy as the "adults" think they are. Thankfully, your angst over this is not catching on...yet. I know the tactics of the perpetually offended, this isn't going away.
Come on Woody..... You know better than that. The WIAA would not have forwarded that twitter to the school AD, without some expectation of discipline being "implied".
They can side step and spin this all they want, they are not going to win the masses in this battle.
Quote from: Jeff Farrell on January 19, 2016, 06:59:45 AM
Come on Woody..... You know better than that. The WIAA would not have forwarded that twitter to the school AD, without some expectation of discipline being "implied".
They can side step and spin this all they want, they are not going to win the masses in this battle.
The discipline is up to the member school. Not the WIAA. Any knowledge of possible code violation, it becomes the responsibility of that official, to forward it on to the appropriate Administrators.
Quote from: woody53 on January 19, 2016, 06:39:28 AM
Quote from: wraslfan on January 19, 2016, 06:27:24 AM
Quote from: woody53 on January 19, 2016, 05:55:22 AM
Quote from: wraslfan on January 18, 2016, 09:57:36 PM
Fans are there to cheer, not educated.
So Interscholastic Sports is not an extension of the classroom?
The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom. Is the role of the WIAA to educate? (I thought that was the role of teachers) Is their role to monitor kids twitter accounts? To suspend athletes a ridiculous amount of time for being critical of the WIAA? In case you aren't aware, that suspension bothers a LOT of people as much as the hysterical concern over cheers. Some people / organizations really must relish in the power that comes with their role...or have really think skin. It's not like she said a prayer before the game.
To make clear. The WIAA does not "monitor Twitter Accounts. It was brought to their attention. They forward the information to the School. The suspension came from the school district, not the WIAA. You defined your understanding of this in your first sentence.
My understanding of this is exactly the same as most on this thread. So please enlighten me since it appears you are suggesting my ignorance. What, are you MNbadger Jr? So, the WIAA tattled on a student for being critical of the ridiculous suggestion from their spokesperson? Childish.
To quote a NFHS Commercial that has been out for over two years and has be shown at all the High School Tournaments, "If you wouldn't do it in the Classroom. Why would you do it on the Court?"
Basically this is some training for everyone to live in HOA's. Because the WIAA is basically an HOA for schools. I'm not necessarily against the idea it's just too often the power gets extended in unintended ways because some members have problems with the other members.
Quote from: woody53 on January 19, 2016, 07:24:45 AM
To quote a NFHS Commercial that has been out for over two years and has be shown at all the High School Tournaments, "If you wouldn't do it in the Classroom. Why would you do it on the Court?"
Was the suggestion from the WIAA directed to the athlete, or the fans? If an opposing player was yelling "Air Ball" after a miss, that would be taunting and I don't think there is a coach out there that would allow that. I've also never seen that happen. This directive was trying to tell fans how to cheer for their team. The tattling and subsequent suspension of an athlete was revenge.
"On the Court".....exactly.....thanks for pointing that out for us Woody.
IMPLIED punishment Woody, it is implied, otherwise they wouldn't waste their time/energy forwarding!
As clarification, I believe the WIAA is a necessary part of this process and does a relatively good job at all they do and provide. They run a great tournament series (Thank you Woody for all you do!), and generally hold the line fairly well on eligibility issues and rules issues. Are they perfect? Should I/We expect them to be perfect? I think we would all agree the answer has to be no. Because of the complexity of issues they have to deal with, there will never be a "perfectly correct answer". Every decision they make could be debated as right or wrong.
But, in this case, they have clearly stepped over some societal boundaries, regardless if this was the 1st time for the "Meaningless Memo" or the 100th time for the "Meaningless Memo".....they have stepped in a steaming pile of cow dung, and their dancing around is only making them look silly. Just crawl under a rock for a couple months, and stop talking about it Dave Anderson & Crew.
What is unfortunate is that by naming specific chants that (most) fans/players find unoffensive, the WIAA (a good institution, with generally good intentions) weakened their position. It's like a Mom who knit picks about every little thing. Eventually, she becomes ineffective, and her words seem meaningless.
I agree. "Air Ball" IS negative. But, I would vote against censoring "Air ball", or "Score Board", or "Fundamentals". I played women's basketball in college. None of these chants discouraged me, or hurt my feelings (and I shot a heck a lot of air balls). I was glad students showed up to watch the game.
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom"
Really? You are in the minority here. This is the reason we have sports in school.
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 10:46:07 AM
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom"
Really? You are in the minority here. This is the reason we have sports in school.
+1,000
The problem with the entire issue is that there is an attempt to bring objectivity to a subjective issue. As stated in the 1964 Supreme Court case on obscenity: I know it when I see it. In all of our communities there are different levels of acceptance. Each community needs to decide how they want to be represented. The WIAA has attempted to take it out of the hands of school officials...in other words be the bad guy in policing sportsmanship. It appears they must now create an overt perception to turn it back to each of its members and trust they will make good decisions in order to gain back credibility.
Quote from: woody53 on January 19, 2016, 05:57:31 AM
Quote from: wrestling for fun on January 18, 2016, 09:35:08 PM
Also disappointed no mention by Gousha or Anderson of the reason this is in the headlines. The "strong arm" tactics used to intimidate the district to suspend student for free speech against the WIAA.
What was the "Strong Arm" Tactic used here?
Come on man... I can understand your loyalty toward WIAA but to defend their actions and response on this subject is silly. They were out of line to demand a district to take action to quiet a students right to free speech on a subject they feel strongly about. It was an "implied directive, demand or intimidation" to "take care of it" or "to handle it"
When a governing agency sends a letter or email stating the above, they no doubt expect action. The intimidation or "strong arm tactic" lies in the perception of sanctions or repercussions that could be taken by a governing agency if their demand was not met. If it was just an informative email they would of stated something such as "here are comments from one of your student athletes that we were made aware of" ... and left it at that. They knew exactly what they were doing and what they expected in return.
I can see where you might feel that is Strong Arm, however that is actual true policy for the Member School Administration to take care of it or handle, not the WIAA. Your comment is more on emotion rather than what the actual policy is between the Member Schools and the WIAA.
Quote from: woody53 on January 19, 2016, 11:48:00 AM
I can see where you might feel that is Strong Arm, however that is actual true policy for the Member School Administration to take care of it or handle, not the WIAA. Your comment is more on emotion rather than what the actual policy is between the Member Schools and the WIAA.
Don't disagree about the emotion, seems the WIAA response, national media attention is all based on emotion.
Just wondering, Did the WIAA get involved because they have a policy on a student speaking out against them, away from any school activity or was it the "nasty words" used in a social media that offended them?
Sounds like an ACLU case to me.
I still have not heard exactly why the Hilbert girl was suspended. I heard it was a code violation? Is that for swearing on twitter? Is that a direct code violation?
I am pretty sure that if that is a code violation then half of all athletes in this state should likely be suspended. They all vent and most will use profanity at some point. It was meant for her friends that are following her. They all likely agreed with her.
Does making it directed at the WIAA then make it a code violation? Was it technically directed at the WIAA if she did not link them to it?
I find the fact that the WIAA got involved in this specific instance to be way over the top which means they must have been oversensitive about it.
Many teachers/administrators see and hear of instances that probably technically code violations but they do not report everything so the WIAA was not "obligated" to report this.
If you want her to learn a lesson or make a point then fine the AD could have had her sit out one game. In my mind this AD overstated the punishment and I have to believe part of that was pressure he felt or assumed from the WIAA since they brought it to his attention.
Assumptions can be made without knowing all the facts. In fact, this is case where we will not know all the facts, as it involves a Student Athlete. I would assume the punishment (again an assumption) that the AD followed the Student Athlete Code.
Quote from: imnofish on January 19, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 10:46:07 AM
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom"
Really? You are in the minority here. This is the reason we have sports in school.
+1,000
So when you two were coaching, how much math and science were you covering? That had to be a strange setting. "Ok, and when your done drilling takedowns, let's gather at the chalkboard and work on our science project." You teach the sport you are coaching. Hardly what you are portraying and it's not an extension of the classroom in the sense you are trying to make it out to be. I get it, you both are super important and have a higher "societal value" than most others.
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 19, 2016, 12:39:55 PM
I still have not heard exactly why the Hilbert girl was suspended. I heard it was a code violation? Is that for swearing on twitter? Is that a direct code violation?
I am pretty sure that if that is a code violation then have of all athletes in this state should likely be suspended. They all vent and most will use profanity at some point. It was meant for her friends that are following her. They all likely agreed with her.
Does making it directed at the WIAA then make it a code violation? Was it technically directed at the WIAA if she did not link them to it?
I find the fact that the WIAA got involved in this specific instance to be way over the top which means they must have been oversensitive about it.
Many teachers/administrators see and hear of instances that probably technically code violations but they do not report everything so the WIAA was not "obligated" to report this.
If you want her to learn a lesson or make a point then fine the AD could have had her sit out one game. In my mind this AD overstated the punishment and I have to believe part of that was pressure he felt or assumed from the WIAA since they brought it to his attention.
great post
Quote from: wraslfan on January 19, 2016, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: imnofish on January 19, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 10:46:07 AM
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom"
Really? You are in the minority here. This is the reason we have sports in school.
+1,000
So when you two were coaching, how much math and science were you covering? That had to be a strange setting. "Ok, and when your done drilling takedowns, let's gather at the chalkboard and work on our science project." You teach the sport you are coaching. Hardly what you are portraying and it's not an extension of the classroom in the sense you are trying to make it out to be. I get it, you both are super important and have a higher "societal value" than most others.
So wraslfan, you think the extent as to what is being taught in the high school classrom these days is math and science? While the names of the courses include things like science and math, and sociology and history and econbomics and art, etc., there is a tremendous amount of learning going on related to appropriate behavioral interactions, expectations, problem solving, goal setting, etc. I am pleased to say that learning in the current school enviornment is about a lot more than readin', writin' and 'rithmatic.
Quote from: npope on January 19, 2016, 04:52:07 PM
Quote from: wraslfan on January 19, 2016, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: imnofish on January 19, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 10:46:07 AM
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom"
Really? You are in the minority here. This is the reason we have sports in school.
+1,000
So when you two were coaching, how much math and science were you covering? That had to be a strange setting. "Ok, and when your done drilling takedowns, let's gather at the chalkboard and work on our science project." You teach the sport you are coaching. Hardly what you are portraying and it's not an extension of the classroom in the sense you are trying to make it out to be. I get it, you both are super important and have a higher "societal value" than most others.
So wraslfan, you think the extent as to what is being taught in the high school classrom these days is math and science? While the names of the courses include things like science and math, and sociology and history and econbomics and art, etc., there is a tremendous amount of learning going on related to appropriate behavioral interactions, expectations, problem solving, goal setting, etc. I am pleased to say that learning in the current school enviornment is about a lot more than readin', writin' and 'rithmatic.
And all of what Nate is saying, also happens in the practice room and on the field of play. Thanks Nate. Didn't know how to respond to that last one.
Quote from: wraslfan on January 19, 2016, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: imnofish on January 19, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 10:46:07 AM
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom"
Really? You are in the minority here. This is the reason we have sports in school.
+1,000
So when you two were coaching, how much math and science were you covering? That had to be a strange setting. "Ok, and when your done drilling takedowns, let's gather at the chalkboard and work on our science project." You teach the sport you are coaching. Hardly what you are portraying and it's not an extension of the classroom in the sense you are trying to make it out to be. I get it, you both are super important and have a higher "societal value" than most others.
I actually did point out examples of various math and science concepts, as they applied to wrestling. So did our district's head coach, who is now in the Wisconsin and National Halls of Fame. He often stated that coaching was an extension of teaching and counseling. Coaches are educators, but it's not always obvious. The reality is that educators work toward the development of all members of the school community, by helping students learn to connect essential academic, emotional, social, components that comprise a healthy individual and healthy society. Wrestling coaches certainly don't just concentrate on the physical skills of the sport.
Quote from: imnofish on January 19, 2016, 05:09:01 PM
Quote from: wraslfan on January 19, 2016, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: imnofish on January 19, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 10:46:07 AM
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom"
Really? You are in the minority here. This is the reason we have sports in school.
+1,000
So when you two were coaching, how much math and science were you covering? That had to be a strange setting. "Ok, and when your done drilling takedowns, let's gather at the chalkboard and work on our science project." You teach the sport you are coaching. Hardly what you are portraying and it's not an extension of the classroom in the sense you are trying to make it out to be. I get it, you both are super important and have a higher "societal value" than most others.
I actually did point out examples of various math and science concepts, as they applied to wrestling. So did our district's head coach, who is now in the Wisconsin and National Halls of Fame. He often stated that coaching was an extension of teaching and counseling. Coaches are educators, but it's not always obvious. The reality is that educators work toward the development of all members of the school community, by helping learn students learn to connect essential academic, emotional, social, components that comprise a healthy individual and healthy society. Wrestling coaches certainly don't just concentrate on the physical skills of the sport.
Well said. Am I right now, in reading this, that you two know each other and are from the same school district?
Quote from: woody53 on January 19, 2016, 05:11:23 PM
Quote from: imnofish on January 19, 2016, 05:09:01 PM
Quote from: wraslfan on January 19, 2016, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: imnofish on January 19, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 10:46:07 AM
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom"
Really? You are in the minority here. This is the reason we have sports in school.
+1,000
So when you two were coaching, how much math and science were you covering? That had to be a strange setting. "Ok, and when your done drilling takedowns, let's gather at the chalkboard and work on our science project." You teach the sport you are coaching. Hardly what you are portraying and it's not an extension of the classroom in the sense you are trying to make it out to be. I get it, you both are super important and have a higher "societal value" than most others.
I actually did point out examples of various math and science concepts, as they applied to wrestling. So did our district's head coach, who is now in the Wisconsin and National Halls of Fame. He often stated that coaching was an extension of teaching and counseling. Coaches are educators, but it's not always obvious. The reality is that educators work toward the development of all members of the school community, by helping learn students learn to connect essential academic, emotional, social, components that comprise a healthy individual and healthy society. Wrestling coaches certainly don't just concentrate on the physical skills of the sport.
Well said. I'm I right now in reading this that you two know each other and are from the same school district?
We know each other, but only through mutual friends, attending wrestling meets, and this website. We never coached together, or against each other, however. The coach to which I am referring in my example is Jim Richie. A great example to emulate, as is my father, a longtime coach in Illinois.
Wraslfan: "You teach the sport you are coaching"
No, I teach young men and women to become good citizens both on the practice field, gym, wrestling room, and classroom.
When sports are threatened budget-wise we (coaches, parents, and participants) are the first to state that they are extensions of the classroom and academic day. If you don't believe this, then sports should be removed from the school setting all together.
This (the belief that sports is an extension of the classroom) is part of most state's high school league mission statements. I can tell you that it has been stated and discussed throughout my nearly 40 years of coaching.
You once again try to twist things wraslfan.
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 06:26:21 PM
Wraslfan: "You teach the sport you are coaching"
No, I teach young men and women to become good citizens both on the practice field, gym, wrestling room, and classroom.
When sports are threatened budget-wise we (coaches, parents, and participants) are the first to state that they are extensions of the classroom and academic day. If you don't believe this, then sports should be removed from the school setting all together.
This (the belief that sports is an extension of the classroom) is part of most state's high school league mission statements. I can tell you that it has been stated and discussed throughout my nearly 40 years of coaching.
You once again try to twist things wraslfan.
I understand full well the other "teachings" of a coach, I also understand the only twisting going on is the response from the WIAA, and those defending the initial statement and the back peddling from the WIAA. I stated in an earlier thread, I have no issue with the WIAA, but when you get something wrong, admit it and move on.
I have coached to. I understand that you teach more than technique on the court, field or mat. I also know that most coaches do not remind others how relevant they are in that aspect of "teaching." That is part of being a good coach and leader. Most coaches just do it and don't ask for recognition for it. Lets not pretend either, there are guidelines students have to meet in order to be eligible to be in sports. In that respect sports is an extension of the classroom.
Quote from: npope on January 19, 2016, 04:52:07 PM
Quote from: wraslfan on January 19, 2016, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: imnofish on January 19, 2016, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 10:46:07 AM
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom"
Really? You are in the minority here. This is the reason we have sports in school.
+1,000
So when you two were coaching, how much math and science were you covering? That had to be a strange setting. "Ok, and when your done drilling takedowns, let's gather at the chalkboard and work on our science project." You teach the sport you are coaching. Hardly what you are portraying and it's not an extension of the classroom in the sense you are trying to make it out to be. I get it, you both are super important and have a higher "societal value" than most others.
So wraslfan, you think the extent as to what is being taught in the high school classrom these days is math and science? While the names of the courses include things like science and math, and sociology and history and econbomics and art, etc., there is a tremendous amount of learning going on related to appropriate behavioral interactions, expectations, problem solving, goal setting, etc. I am pleased to say that learning in the current school enviornment is about a lot more than readin', writin' and 'rithmatic.
No, I actually agree with what you posted.
Wow, Talk about backpedaling!
"So when you two were coaching, how much math and science were you covering? That had to be a strange setting. "Ok, and when your done drilling takedowns, let's gather at the chalkboard and work on our science project." You teach the sport you are coaching. Hardly what you are portraying and it's not an extension of the classroom in the sense you are trying to make it out to be. I get it, you both are super important and have a higher "societal value" than most others."
You also stated in an earlier post that "the basketball court is not an extension of the classroom".
Then, you post this:
"I understand full well the other "teachings" of a coach, I also understand the only twisting going on is the response from the WIAA, and those defending the initial statement and the back peddling from the WIAA. I stated in an earlier thread, I have no issue with the WIAA, but when you get something wrong, admit it and move on.
I have coached to. I understand that you teach more than technique on the court, field or mat. I also know that most coaches do not remind others how relevant they are in that aspect of "teaching." That is part of being a good coach and leader. Most coaches just do it and don't ask for recognition for it. Lets not pretend either, there are guidelines students have to meet in order to be eligible to be in sports. In that respect sports is an extension of the classroom."
If you are not backpedaling you certainly are contradicting yourself.
No one "reminded " anyone of anything or "asked for recognition".
You made a claim (an incorrect one) that sports were not an extension of the classroom and it was rebutted to your displeasure.
Wraslfan, one of your earlier posts:
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom. Actually, yes it is Is the role of the WIAA to educate? (I thought that was the role of teachers) Actually it is (at least it is for the MSHSL, I have partaken of many educational offerings from them) I assume the WIAA provides similar educational experiences. Is their role to monitor kids twitter accounts? To suspend athletes a ridiculous amount of time for being critical of the WIAA? In case you aren't aware, that suspension bothers a LOT of people as much as the hysterical concern over cheers. Some people / organizations really must relish in the power that comes with their role...or have really think skin. It's not like she said a prayer before the game.
"The people in Wisconsin are stupid," Joe Theismann said.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/os-wisconsin-disrespectful-cheers-david-whitley-20160116-column.html
I would take that as a taunt from Theismann. Chicken Legs!
"It's slam dunk unconstitutional," said Frank LoMonte, an attorney and executive director of the Student Press Law Center. "Citizens are not under a duty to criticize in the most polite way."
Mark Kende, director of the Drake Constitutional Law Center, also sees free speech problems when schools prohibit criticism like Gehl used.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/high-school/2016/01/15/say-what-student-chants-games-can-seem-like-taunts/78860910/
To Be Clear
To be clear... there has been.....
NO new directives,
NO new rules,
NO new mandates,
NO new enforcement expectations.
https://twitter.com/wiaawi/status/687307981562732544
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 09:29:01 PM
Wraslfan, one of your earlier posts:
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom. Actually, yes it is Is the role of the WIAA to educate? (I thought that was the role of teachers) Actually it is (at least it is for the MSHSL, I have partaken of many educational offerings from them) I assume the WIAA provides similar educational experiences. Is their role to monitor kids twitter accounts? To suspend athletes a ridiculous amount of time for being critical of the WIAA? In case you aren't aware, that suspension bothers a LOT of people as much as the hysterical concern over cheers. Some people / organizations really must relish in the power that comes with their role...or have really think skin. It's not like she said a prayer before the game.
This has nothing to do with being an extension of the classroom.
In order to compete in HS sports, you must be a HS student and the student athlete on the field, court or mat will be held to a high standard of sportsmanship.
Last time I checked, you do not need to be a student to attend a HS competition and thus it can not be an extension of the classroom when I cheer, yell traveling, stalling, airball, or Squeeze, nor is it when my favorite song na na na na na na na na hey hey hey goodbye!
The Misconception of chanting "USA"
We would like to clarify that we do not think chanting "USA" is unsportsmanlike when it is intended to be "United States of America." However, it has come to our attention that this abbreviation has also been used..... (I can't write any more.
) Read it yourself. Please tell me that someone at the WIAA really didn't write that tweet. It has to be fake. Please. Their Twitter account had to be hacked. No one would be that stupid in Wisconsin to write that. Did Joe Theismann post that? Someone call up the WIAA and have them check their passwords to their Social Media Accounts. It just can't be real.
https://twitter.com/wiaawi/status/687303296701329409
It's in the National Review. It has to be real. I think they ought to pull that tweet down. Now I can't get that out of my head. I will never be able to watch a replay of the 1980 Miracle on Ice Again.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429791/wisconsin-college-sports-chants-hurt-peoples-feelings-banned
That was not the debate. Sports are an extension of the classroom certainly for the athletes and coaches. The students are expected to adhere to school rules as well at any school function, even off campus (field trips for example).
The practice of yelling "airball" at a high school athlete is still unacceptable to me. As an adult you certainly can do so............
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 10:15:15 PM
That was not the debate. Sports are an extension of the classroom certainly for the athletes and coaches. The students are expected to adhere to school rules as well at any school function, even off campus (field trips for example).
The practice of yelling "airball" at a high school athlete is still unacceptable to me. As an adult you certainly can do so............
This was never about athletes not having sportsmanship, it was about those in attendance.
You think the kid that was just taken down doesn't understand that TWO means he was taken down? We should stop that and while we are at it stop yelling stalling or "what is he doing on the bottom". It is offensive to that athlete who it is attributed to.
No, go back and look at what Wraslfan posted ("the basketball court is not an extension of the classroom", etc.). That is what my more recent posts pertain to.
As far as your cheers, go ahead, knock yourself out. You can be as negative as you want. I choose not to.
Additionally, yelling "two" is different than yelling "airball". Yelling "two" is more comparable to cheering when your team makes a basket.
MNbadger.... That hole the WIAA dug is big enough for you to jump in as well, they may enjoy your company as they probably won't get anyone else to join them 😉.... And that hole is deep, so wear a safety harness 😁!!!!
Quote from: MNbadger on January 19, 2016, 09:29:01 PM
Wraslfan, one of your earlier posts:
"The basketball court is not an extension of the classroom. Actually, yes it is Is the role of the WIAA to educate? (I thought that was the role of teachers) Actually it is (at least it is for the MSHSL, I have partaken of many educational offerings from them) I assume the WIAA provides similar educational experiences. Is their role to monitor kids twitter accounts? To suspend athletes a ridiculous amount of time for being critical of the WIAA? In case you aren't aware, that suspension bothers a LOT of people as much as the hysterical concern over cheers. Some people / organizations really must relish in the power that comes with their role...or have really think skin. It's not like she said a prayer before the game.
Use the "quote" button at the top right of the post you wish to quote instead of all the copying, pasting and coloring. Thought that might save you some time. I just assumed that with your self professed superior intellect you would have figured that out by now. I apologize for my rare spelling error as well.
The WIAA putting out a directive / suggestion saying you shouldn't yell "air ball" or "scoreboard" etc...at a basketball game is not an "extension of the classroom." (especially when meant for those in the stands) Saying it's an extension of the classroom after the fact is a deflection. Backing off your original statement after you were made a national laughing stock is in fact back pedaling.
I've always been thankful for the coaches my son had in MS and HS, you make me appreciate them even more. As much as I am against club sports replacing school sports, you are the poster child for why I could get on board with that movement.
I am not backing off at all from any statement. You can manipulate it in your own mind to suit yourself of course.
You are dependable though..... as always you come through with the personal attacks that have no bearing on the debate.
Thanks for the tech assistance but I don't prefer the long succession of quote boxes so I'll keep doing what I am doing in that regard.
Still trying to wipe the tarnished U.S.A chant out of my mind no thanks to the tweet from the WIAA. Maybe all the students on both sides can hold signs saying "United Student Association" and chant U.S.A. together. It would be a moment of solidarity and bring two opposing sides together. It would be a reassurance of the place we live and that we still have a First Amendment and it protects them as well.
As far as the extension of the classroom. I'm all for it. Please inform the member coaches about their use of foul and derogatory language. I've heard much worse from too many coaches than I did from that post by the athlete. Start there and then maybe I'll believe that they are serious about teaching and extending the classroom. Because I've heard to many coaches speak much worse than that.
Quote from: MNbadger on January 20, 2016, 06:29:56 AM
I am not backing off at all from any statement.
Of course you won't, you have idea how to admit you may be wrong.
Let me help you out; The WIAA overstepped its authority and did not employ common sense when they de died to send out thus memo. They lost credibility and frankly respect because some members decided to become "politically correct" and arrogant with perceived authority.
I get it. Adults want to be able to yell negative cheers at adolescents. I don't claim that the cheers will kill anyone. I find them to be improper and choose to cheer FOR my team, not against another. If you are honest with yourself you know why you yell "airball" and things like it.
Your battle with the WIAA (an organization your school chooses to belong to) will likely never end.
I never really wanted to get into that part really. I was pointing out the statement about the educational purpose of sport.
As far as being able to admit when I am wrong I do. I simply am not wrong here. I will say you are projecting though.
Quote from: MNbadger on January 20, 2016, 07:34:45 AM
I get it. Adults want to be able to yell negative cheers at adolescents. I don't claim that the cheers will kill anyone. I find them to be improper and choose to cheer FOR my team, not against another. If you are honest with yourself you know why you yell "airball" and things like it.
Your battle with the WIAA (an organization your school chooses to belong to) will likely never end.
I never really wanted to get into that part really. I was pointing out the statement about the educational purpose of sport.
As far as being able to admit when I am wrong I do. I simply am not wrong here. I will say you are projecting though.
Here is your participation trophy.......🏆
From my perspective only... No adult parent or fan should yell any of these chants at high school students. They are not your peers.
But I do think that all these chants are every bit a part of showing your own school spirit as they are supposedly being mean to the opposing team. I certainly think the student section should boo the other team when they run on the field, court, mat. The student section should turn their backs and pretend to read the newspaper when other team is introduced. They are showing their own school spirit with absolutely no harm in my mind to the other team. I have never heard an athlete once complain about it and most embrace and enjoy it. It is fun for all so lets not be to oversensitive.
I see a true distinction between student fans and adults. Maybe that makes no sense but just how I see it. Just don't see the disrespect. Schools and communities are better the more school spirit they have from the non-athletes. I just think there are more positives in developing school spirit and "innocent" fun than there are negatives. We had a principal that suspended everyone for expressing "school spirit". Nobody went to the games thus kids got in more trouble doing other things and eventually it was not cool to even be in sports which also plummeted the number of kids going out for sports. Remember when it was actually cool to be a cheerleader! That is just changing now with change in administration and philosophy and things are getting better in all aspects of school and sports activities.
Let fans be fans!
Make adults be adults!
Make athletes be athletes! They show respect to each other and also things that fans can do should not be done by those competing or on the bench.
Granted that is some odd distinctions but I guess that is just how I see it.
Quote from: MNbadger on January 20, 2016, 07:34:45 AM
I get it. Adults want to be able to yell negative cheers at adolescents. I don't claim that the cheers will kill anyone. I find them to be improper and choose to cheer FOR my team, not against another. If you are honest with yourself you know why you yell "airball" and things like it.
Your battle with the WIAA (an organization your school chooses to belong to) will likely never end.
I never really wanted to get into that part really. I was pointing out the statement about the educational purpose of sport.
As far as being able to admit when I am wrong I do. I simply am not wrong here. I will say you are projecting though.
To be fair, it's not like a school has a choice to be part of the WIAA. If you're not on board, your school doesn't compete. I would guess there are many AD's that have issues with parts of the WIAA. Doesn't matter, you're in or you're out.
I think in the arrogance of the WIAA they believed they were breaking some new ground on sportsmanship and were paving the way for other states to follow. They didn't realize how absolutely stupid they would look. They are the laughing stock of the country and true to their arrogant ways can't even come out, rescind the memo, and apologize for the stir it caused and the embarrassment it has brought to our state. Instead continue to respond with "clarifications".
I find it deplorable that sports media and sports fans eagerly expend more energy complaining and fighting over this than they are apparently willing to devote to supporting schools, students, athletes, etc. Apparently, it's all about US... :P
I agree that the WIAA made no new rules or new directives through this e-mail but it is obvious what their intentions were. They wanted to specifically remind schools what the past rules were which is fine to promote sportsmanship. But then they specifically outlined certain cheers which makes it completely obvious that they thought those cheers were unacceptable and were indirectly asking all school districts to ban them to follow their "past" policy. They would have been fine if they did not specifically name cheers that the overwhelming majority of people have no problem with.
They sent the e-mail for the sole purpose of stopping these cheers. They made it worse as it likely makes those cheers more popular and louder with students and thus made the job of administrators harder. Kind of like UW trying to stop students from chants with profanity. They tried and made things worse. Even then it would not have been a firestorm if they did not make another horrible decision by going after the Hilbert girl. Without that nobody would have known other than the AD's that laughed when they got the e-mail. Pretty sure every AD was thinking I got bigger problems than this to worry about.
Again I want to see the complaints the WIAA has received that made them think this was a problem. I doubt they received complaints. Thus it is something that the 1-2 individuals that head the entire WIAA thought was something important. I have a real problem with the way the WIAA leadership is set up for control and accountability. They need to involve coaches associations way more than they do and have more representative committees making decisions rather than directives from a couple people.
Quote from: imnofish on January 20, 2016, 09:23:56 AM
I find it deplorable that sports media and sports fans eagerly expend more energy complaining and fighting over this than they are apparently willing to devote to supporting schools, students, athletes, etc. Apparently, it's all about US... :P
I think all of society is a bit tired of all the things they can no longer do that were not at all issues in the past. And all this with no true identification of what the problem is or how this solves it?
If we ban all these cheers, are the student-athletes of today somehow going to be much better off than all of us that competed in the 70's, 80's, and 90's? There was not a problem here? Why does it need a solution?
I think we can all agree that booing is not cool. Is it possible that thee wiaa looks at these chants as an extension of booing. Just asking a question , For I am no fan of thee wiaa .
Quote from: DocWrestling on January 20, 2016, 09:30:06 AM
Quote from: imnofish on January 20, 2016, 09:23:56 AM
I find it deplorable that sports media and sports fans eagerly expend more energy complaining and fighting over this than they are apparently willing to devote to supporting schools, students, athletes, etc. Apparently, it's all about US... :P
I think all of society is a bit tired of all the things they can no longer do that were not at all issues in the past. And all this with no true identification of what the problem is or how this solves it?
If we ban all these cheers, are the student-athletes of today somehow going to be much better off than all of us that competed in the 70's, 80's, and 90's? There was not a problem here? Why does it need a solution?
Were it not for overblown media coverage of minutia, would we even be talking about this? If this wasn't on the radar screen, how many of us would have been devoting the same levels of time and energy to promoting and supporting school athletics/education? These are intended as rhetorical questions that I hope will generate some soul searching by every reader of this forum. Arguing about the potential answers we might find through such a process would just be counterproductive, IMO. It is not my intent to create further division among us, but please just think about the questions I've raised.
As anyone taken the time to contact your AD, your District Administrator? Maybe go to the WIAA Website. Find out who your District Representative is on the Advisory Council. Maybe the Sportsmanship Committee? There are 14 pages here of frustration, speculation and assumptions. Maybe go look for some answers through the channels available. You might be surprised.
That's no fun!! :) Good to hear from ya, Woody.
Quote from: bigG on January 20, 2016, 12:13:38 PM
That's no fun!! :) Good to hear from ya, Woody.
Always good to hear from you G. Let me know if you would like something signed by my boss. ;)
Quote from: woody53 on January 20, 2016, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 20, 2016, 12:13:38 PM
That's no fun!! :) Good to hear from ya, Woody.
Always good to hear from you G. Let me know if you would like something signed by my boss. ;)
And just, pray tell, is a note from your wife gonna help this situation?
Quote from: ramjet on January 20, 2016, 08:31:04 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on January 20, 2016, 07:34:45 AM
I get it. Adults want to be able to yell negative cheers at adolescents. I don't claim that the cheers will kill anyone. I find them to be improper and choose to cheer FOR my team, not against another. If you are honest with yourself you know why you yell "airball" and things like it.
Your battle with the WIAA (an organization your school chooses to belong to) will likely never end.
I never really wanted to get into that part really. I was pointing out the statement about the educational purpose of sport.
As far as being able to admit when I am wrong I do. I simply am not wrong here. I will say you are projecting though.
Here is your participation CHAMPS trophy.......🏆 :)
Quote from: bigG on January 20, 2016, 02:31:29 PM
Quote from: ramjet on January 20, 2016, 08:31:04 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on January 20, 2016, 07:34:45 AM
I get it. Adults want to be able to yell negative cheers at adolescents. I don't claim that the cheers will kill anyone. I find them to be improper and choose to cheer FOR my team, not against another. If you are honest with yourself you know why you yell "airball" and things like it.
Your battle with the WIAA (an organization your school chooses to belong to) will likely never end.
I never really wanted to get into that part really. I was pointing out the statement about the educational purpose of sport.
As far as being able to admit when I am wrong I do. I simply am not wrong here. I will say you are projecting though.
Here is your participation CHAMPS trophy.......🏆 :)
Now the participants feel pretty bad about themselves that you've changed your trophy. :o
Quote from: Dale Einerson on January 20, 2016, 01:08:25 PM
Quote from: woody53 on January 20, 2016, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 20, 2016, 12:13:38 PM
That's no fun!! :) Good to hear from ya, Woody.
Always good to hear from you G. Let me know if you would like something signed by my boss. ;)
And just, pray tell, is a note from your wife gonna help this situation?
Oh, we do not want to get her involved. I am free to run the tournaments for two weekends and do not want to lose that. ;)
Quote from: bigG on January 20, 2016, 02:31:29 PM
Quote from: ramjet on January 20, 2016, 08:31:04 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on January 20, 2016, 07:34:45 AM
I get it. Adults want to be able to yell negative cheers at adolescents. I don't claim that the cheers will kill anyone. I find them to be improper and choose to cheer FOR my team, not against another. If you are honest with yourself you know why you yell "airball" and things like it.
Your battle with the WIAA (an organization your school chooses to belong to) will likely never end.
I never really wanted to get into that part really. I was pointing out the statement about the educational purpose of sport.
As far as being able to admit when I am wrong I do. I simply am not wrong here. I will say you are projecting though.
Here is your participation CHAMPS trophy.......🏆 :)
😄 🍻
you guys are really still talking about this?? Dont be a jerk at high school events.problem solved
Quote from: Grappler on January 20, 2016, 04:20:10 PM
you guys are really still talking about this?? Dont be a jerk at high school events.problem solved
I promise you I am not a jerk at a High School Events. Although they're are many who think I am because of... Well... I work with the WIAA !
Quote from: Dale Einerson on January 20, 2016, 01:08:25 PM
Quote from: woody53 on January 20, 2016, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 20, 2016, 12:13:38 PM
That's no fun!! :) Good to hear from ya, Woody.
Always good to hear from you G. Let me know if you would like something signed by my boss. ;)
And just, pray tell, is a note from your wife gonna help this situation?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: MNbadger on January 20, 2016, 06:29:56 AM
I am not backing off at all from any statement. You can manipulate it in your own mind to suit yourself of course.
You are dependable though..... as always you come through with the personal attacks that have no bearing on the debate.
Thanks for the tech assistance but I don't prefer the long succession of quote boxes so I'll keep doing what I am doing in that regard.
I never asked (or expected) you to back off your statement. I am not manipulating my mind either (another futile attempt at an insult), I deal in reality, you live in some academic elitist make believe world...
I am as dependable as you are. You (arrogantly) pointed out my spelling error, (completely irrelevant to the conversation) you and I both know that you meant for it to be insulting. (I've never seen you correct any of your lefty buddies spelling errors.) I really don't mind either, I promise I would have taken the opportunity with you as well. As for the tech advice, you can still delete what you want excluded from the quote to avoid the long succession of quote boxes.
Quote from: imnofish on January 20, 2016, 10:21:59 AM
Were it not for overblown media coverage of minutia, would we even be talking about this? If this wasn't on the radar screen, how many of us would have been devoting the same levels of time and energy to promoting and supporting school athletics/education? These are intended as rhetorical questions that I hope will generate some soul searching by every reader of this forum. Arguing about the potential answers we might find through such a process would just be counterproductive, IMO. It is not my intent to create further division among us, but please just think about the questions I've raised.
[/quote]
I understand what you are saying, it's just that this crossed the line for many...people are really tired of this kind of thing. As for fans cheering / supporting their schools sports teams, I'm sure this didn't hurt anything because it didn't go anywhere. Nothing was changed. It may have brought some forgotten cheers back in vogue though. As MarkK might have been eluding to, you might here "USA, USA" at a few more gyms than you did before. ;D
Quote from: Grappler on January 20, 2016, 04:20:10 PM
you guys are really still talking about this?? Dont be a jerk at high school events.problem solved
I'm with you, pal. Keep it positive; support your team. Easy as that.
Rammy Old Buddy, ahhh, just in case ya Forgot, the WIAA IS THE AUTHORITY! another words, they ASK No one! .. :D ..."Let me help you out "The WIAA overstepped its authority and did not employ common sense" - Rammy..... just thought i better help ya out here.... ;)
Quote from: imnofish on January 20, 2016, 04:43:35 PM
Quote from: Dale Einerson on January 20, 2016, 01:08:25 PM
Quote from: woody53 on January 20, 2016, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 20, 2016, 12:13:38 PM
That's no fun!! :) Good to hear from ya, Woody.
Always good to hear from you G. Let me know if you would like something signed by my boss. ;)
And just, pray tell, is a note from your wife gonna help this situation?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yer boss and my boss oughtta get together and go bowlin'.
Quote from: woody53 on January 20, 2016, 04:28:41 PM
Quote from: Grappler on January 20, 2016, 04:20:10 PM
you guys are really still talking about this?? Dont be a jerk at high school events.problem solved
I promise you I am not a jerk at a High School Events. Although they're are many who think I am because of... Well... I work with the WIAA !
For the record Woody, any statements I post with my displeasure of the WIAA does not include you. You're one of the good guys.
Quote from: bigG on January 21, 2016, 09:29:26 AM
Quote from: imnofish on January 20, 2016, 04:43:35 PM
Quote from: Dale Einerson on January 20, 2016, 01:08:25 PM
Quote from: woody53 on January 20, 2016, 12:15:11 PM
Quote from: bigG on January 20, 2016, 12:13:38 PM
That's no fun!! :) Good to hear from ya, Woody.
Always good to hear from you G. Let me know if you would like something signed by my boss. ;)
And just, pray tell, is a note from your wife gonna help this situation?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yer boss and my boss oughtta get together and go bowlin'.
I did mean my work boss as you mentioned he was one of your favorite players back in the day.
Quote from: Barou on January 21, 2016, 09:59:22 AM
Quote from: woody53 on January 20, 2016, 04:28:41 PM
Quote from: Grappler on January 20, 2016, 04:20:10 PM
you guys are really still talking about this?? Dont be a jerk at high school events.problem solved
I promise you I am not a jerk at a High School Events. Although they're are many who think I am because of... Well... I work with the WIAA !
For the record Woody, any statements I post with my displeasure of the WIAA does not include you. You're one of the good guys.
Thanks Barou.
Quote from: maggie on January 21, 2016, 09:27:16 AM
Rammy Old Buddy, ahhh, just in case ya Forgot, the WIAA IS THE AUTHORITY! another words, they ASK No one! .. :D ..."Let me help you out "The WIAA overstepped its authority and did not employ common sense" - Rammy..... just thought i better help ya out here.... ;)
No maggie we have alittle something called The United States Constitution maybe you should look it up?
They think they are the ultimate authority but have found out specifically in this case the people will not stand for it.
The more backlash the better.