UW recruiting question.

Started by leg turk, March 18, 2024, 11:45:20 AM

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CoachO

First, I am not a Coach Davis Defender. He was coach a lot longer than he should have been. He and Coach Bono both had to deal with similar standards, but Coach Davis did not have to deal with NIL. A look back at Coach Davis's last season that he said himself was disappointing and many agreed: 3-6 in the Big Ten, 6th at the Big Ten tournament with 67.5 points, 5.5 points out of 5th. 6 top 7 placers with two 4ths and two thirds. 7 NCAA qualifiers

Badgers this year: 3-5 in the Big Ten, 8th at the Big Ten Tournament with 46.5 points, 27.5 points out of 7th. 3 placers in the top 7 with two 7ths and a runner-up. 5 NCAA qualifiers.

The Badgers are not better than they were in Coach Davis's last year. In fact, they may be worse. Unfortunately, I do not think much will change in a non-revenue sport where the kids don't cause trouble until the extension is up in 2027.

littleguy301

Quote from: MNbadger on March 19, 2024, 12:54:11 PM" Madison is very liberal and if your from a conservative family the wild party school may not be the place."
So you think they get there and are forced to "party"?  Every school is a party school if you want it to be.  I respectfully disagree with this being a factor.

I get what your saying here and all can be a party school. Though not many in the nation are as big as Madison so if you have 50k students to 5k students you by numbers get a bigger party situation.

I am also saying you hear about the protest and such in Madison alot more than you hear about a UW d3 school. Parents are effecting some decisions more now than years past.

Personally it is ones choice to do whatever they chose in college. As a parent I hopefully set some boundaries and I hope the kids listen but that isn't a thought in others home.
If life is tough,,,,wear a helmet

Ghetto

If you are putting political slant of a city as part of your kids college selection...

Whitewater is literally in rural America, which is typically conservative. I can tell you for a fact that it is a party school.

I hate to name names, but I'd consider Eric Barnett as politically red as a person can get (and if I'm wrong Eric, I apologize) and he's somehow survived Madison.
As long as we are keeping score, I've got something to prove

littleguy301

Quote from: Ghetto on March 19, 2024, 02:48:54 PMIf you are putting political slant of a city as part of your kids college selection...

Whitewater is literally in rural America, which is typically conservative. I can tell you for a fact that it is a party school.

I hate to name names, but I'd consider Eric Barnett as politically red as a person can get (and if I'm wrong Eric, I apologize) and he's somehow survived Madison.

Great point for sure. Look at where you live. Badger and Ghetto live in a big metro area and Eric is from a growing area. Go and live in rural Wisconsin for your life and tell me you have the same additude toward a bigger city.

I understand that most colleges are going to party and probably alot.
If life is tough,,,,wear a helmet

asdf

For a sport and fan base whose mantra is "excuses are for wusses" I have a bit of trouble keeping up with all of the reasons why Badgers are underperforming under Bono.


wrestle03

Badgers this year: 3-5 in the Big Ten, 8th at the Big Ten Tournament with 46.5 points, 27.5 points out of 7th. 3 placers in the top 7 with two 7ths and a runner-up. 5 NCAA qualifiers.

The Badgers are not better than they were in Coach Davis's last year. In fact, they may be worse. Unfortunately, I do not think much will change in a non-revenue sport where the kids don't cause trouble until the extension is up in 2027.

CoachO hit the nail on the head above.  But too many people on here are blinded by drinking the Bono koolaid to realize this program is actually either still the same as it was when Davis was here or in my opinion they are worse off.  Not sure why so many of you want to keep making excuses and giving him a free pass - its actually comical how people accept mediocrity.  This program currently is in a very sad state and if I were Jon Reader I'd be jumping ship as well - which is what is rumored Jon Reader will be doing very shortly going to CMU.

npope

#21
You guys seem to stereo-type quite a bit regarding the Wisconsin political landscape - and I think maybe a bit too broadly (all young Wisconsin kids are doing the same kind of crap, both city and rural). But be that as it may...I am actually on here to jump into the UW admittance standards. Know first that I cannot speak to the current standards/expectations better than others have already done. I can say that "back-in-the-day" there weren't very many standards to be considered (I am talking 50 years ago). The UW was still a gem of a school at the time, but the world was different. I have previously shared this story on the forum, so I will abbreviate it to say that I was on the UW wrestling team, as were my three roommates in the Regent. One of my roomies was functionally illiterate (by technical standards - not just by general acclimation). He could not read much more than a shopping list. One time, our coach showed up at our apartment livid with the score my roommate got on a PE paper exam and was demanding how could he fail when the coach had just given him the exam with the answers the night before. That's the moment my roommate came out and admitted that he couldn't read the exam. That moment was an eye-opener...and then add to that that my illiterate roomie lasted until the end of his sophomore year until he finally dropped out.

My point is that he never should have been in college to begin with; the coaches were supporting him in unethical ways; and he still managed to survive two years at the UW. I have absolutely no idea what goes on behind the scenes these days (at any university sports program), but there was a time when the worst you might imagine was a reality.
Merely having an opinion doesn't necessarily make it a good one

Nat Pope

vsmf2010

I find it interesting that those of us who support the coaching staff, support the wrestlers and find positives in the wrestlers and coaches are considered to be happy with the results, accepting mediocrity, drinking the koolaid, saying that the current staff is better than the previous etc... I supported Barry when he was here, never advocated for him to fired and supported the new coaching staff when they came in and will continue to do so.

Personally I do not advocate for coaches to lose their job unless they are doing something illegal or unethical but that is just me. To me there are more important things than wins, losses and tournament placement. I really enjoyed watching this team develop this year and was especially proud of what Shane and Max were able to accomplish. I will support the coaching staff that is here next year regardless of who that is, buy my season tickets, show up to every home match and pay to stream every road match and tournament as long as there is a hard working group of young men putting the W on their chest. If there was fundraiser for a new room I would happily donate to that too.

For those of you who would like to see a coaching change what are you doing about it? Are you raising money for the buyout? Are you contacting Chris McIntosh and demanding a meeting? Are you getting signatures on a petition? Or are you comfortable just shaming those of us who support the program?


DocWrestling

I am never to call for replacing a coach unless I know what we might get in return.  I have thrown out the Askren or now Mesenbrink names but i agree that the university might not take the risk and they probably do not want the job.

So throw out names that you think can change the program and might actually come here?  As I have said I would probably go to the Askrens and get their input or ask who would they think could be great.

Is Becker really going to change anything?
Brandvold?
Hahn?

How are they any different than when we brought in the hot new coach whose name was Bono?

I personally don't see the Badgers ever competing for top 4 in the Big Ten.  If that is the case I would love to see it loaded with Wisconsin HS wrestlers for fans to cheer on hometown kids.

To admission standards, you are not getting in as a wrestler without having at least a 3.2 or 3.3 GPA in your core classes.  Your gym grades and shop classes don't count
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

Vir Fortis

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 19, 2024, 08:20:57 PMIs Becker really going to change anything?
Brandvold?
Hahn?


Why not? Becker is an outstanding coach. He doesn't have the D1 accolades, but he has the respect of Askren. Like it or not, he's the biggest obstacle right now.

Brandvold? Again, why not? He's a Wisconsin guy, I would think he'd do better with Wisconsin kids. He's been an outstanding assistant.

Hahn-Does he get along with Askren?

When you have a young Hamiti(he's not exactly old now, but you get my point), Amos, Hilger, Barnett, and you then grabbed a few big time recruits like Rowley, Estrada, Root, you were in on Davino, Hopke and Ferrari(may have dodged a bullet there and a future teammate may literally have had to dodge one if it's family thing)...I was excited about the future of the program.

12-18 months later, the question is...could things get much worse? We're not seeing guys taking big jumps(Hamiti gets a pass on that one given he's in the toughest weight)...Hilger, did he have his best showing his 2nd year? Barnett is a REALLY good Wrestler. Seems like the same mistakes. Amos didn't progress and now with the Greco, who's to say if he will.

Give me a younger coach with experience who can work with these kids and has a clean slate.

Also, let the Athletic Department know that a square build no taller than 5'6 is not actually a pre-requisite!


Finally, as far as I know, the academic requirements at UW ARE much more difficult than their peers(most of them anyway). This is something Bielema and Andersen bemoaned as the Football coaches as they lost multiple highly ranked recruits to the likes of MSU, Nebraska, and Michigan—Guys who wanted to play at Wisconsin. I can't cite it offhand, but among the Power 5, only Stanford was more difficult to get guys into Wisconsin. So the guys going elsewhere, it's hardly an insult to suggest SOME of them may not have been able to gain admission into Wisconsin. It's also not an excuse.


wrestle_4ever

Say what you want about the academic requirements, but that's all part of why I'm proud to be a Badger. If I only cared about success on the mat, there are plenty of other teams to root for.

In todays society, I'm proud to have standards. Athletes should be proud to represent Wisconsin and go compete. Raise the bar and take pride in your character.

On Wisconsin.
It ain't the six minutes...it's what happens in that six minutes

WrestlerSB80

#26
Just think of what if? Tell me if we had the right people in charge, kids wouldn't pick Wisconsin.

125 Barnett
133 ?
141 ?
149 Gomez
157 Mesenbrink
165 O'Toole
174 Hamiti
184 Keckeisen
197 Joles
Hwt ?


littleguy301

Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 21, 2024, 05:31:00 AM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 19, 2024, 08:20:57 PMIs Becker really going to change anything?
Brandvold?
Hahn?


Why not? Becker is an outstanding coach. He doesn't have the D1 accolades, but he has the respect of Askren. Like it or not, he's the biggest obstacle right now.

Brandvold? Again, why not? He's a Wisconsin guy, I would think he'd do better with Wisconsin kids. He's been an outstanding assistant.

Hahn-Does he get along with Askren?

When you have a young Hamiti(he's not exactly old now, but you get my point), Amos, Hilger, Barnett, and you then grabbed a few big time recruits like Rowley, Estrada, Root, you were in on Davino, Hopke and Ferrari(may have dodged a bullet there and a future teammate may literally have had to dodge one if it's family thing)...I was excited about the future of the program.

12-18 months later, the question is...could things get much worse? We're not seeing guys taking big jumps(Hamiti gets a pass on that one given he's in the toughest weight)...Hilger, did he have his best showing his 2nd year? Barnett is a REALLY good Wrestler. Seems like the same mistakes. Amos didn't progress and now with the Greco, who's to say if he will.

Give me a younger coach with experience who can work with these kids and has a clean slate.

Also, let the Athletic Department know that a square build no taller than 5'6 is not actually a pre-requisite!


Finally, as far as I know, the academic requirements at UW ARE much more difficult than their peers(most of them anyway). This is something Bielema and Andersen bemoaned as the Football coaches as they lost multiple highly ranked recruits to the likes of MSU, Nebraska, and Michigan—Guys who wanted to play at Wisconsin. I can't cite it offhand, but among the Power 5, only Stanford was more difficult to get guys into Wisconsin. So the guys going elsewhere, it's hardly an insult to suggest SOME of them may not have been able to gain admission into Wisconsin. It's also not an excuse.



Personally I believe Hahn would stand up to Askren and not let this situation get this back. Hahn is that type of guy that tells you were the Bear is ...... in the woods if that makes sense. Seriously doubt he comes also.

Want UW to do well and wishing the best this weekend but i have a gut feeling that after this weekend the wheels are off the wagon. Hope not but.....
If life is tough,,,,wear a helmet

DocWrestling

I am certainly for a change at coach.  Just don't hold high hopes that much will change but you have to try.

UW football coaches know they must have a good relationship with our high school coaches.  Fickell is behind on this but trying hard.

The UW wrestling coach CANNOT be having issues with HS or club coaches in Wisconsin to  be successful.  At least football does not have to really compete too much with Minnesota but Northwest Wisconsin has great wrestling and those kids are tending to go to Minnesota as it is closer and they have had more success.  Need to try and change that also
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

asdf

Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 21, 2024, 05:31:00 AM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 19, 2024, 08:20:57 PMIs Becker really going to change anything?
Brandvold?
Hahn?


Why not? Becker is an outstanding coach. He doesn't have the D1 accolades, but he has the respect of Askren. Like it or not, he's the biggest obstacle right now.

Brandvold? Again, why not? He's a Wisconsin guy, I would think he'd do better with Wisconsin kids. He's been an outstanding assistant.

Hahn-Does he get along with Askren?

When you have a young Hamiti(he's not exactly old now, but you get my point), Amos, Hilger, Barnett, and you then grabbed a few big time recruits like Rowley, Estrada, Root, you were in on Davino, Hopke and Ferrari(may have dodged a bullet there and a future teammate may literally have had to dodge one if it's family thing)...I was excited about the future of the program.

12-18 months later, the question is...could things get much worse? We're not seeing guys taking big jumps(Hamiti gets a pass on that one given he's in the toughest weight)...Hilger, did he have his best showing his 2nd year? Barnett is a REALLY good Wrestler. Seems like the same mistakes. Amos didn't progress and now with the Greco, who's to say if he will.

Give me a younger coach with experience who can work with these kids and has a clean slate.

Also, let the Athletic Department know that a square build no taller than 5'6 is not actually a pre-requisite!


Finally, as far as I know, the academic requirements at UW ARE much more difficult than their peers(most of them anyway). This is something Bielema and Andersen bemoaned as the Football coaches as they lost multiple highly ranked recruits to the likes of MSU, Nebraska, and Michigan—Guys who wanted to play at Wisconsin. I can't cite it offhand, but among the Power 5, only Stanford was more difficult to get guys into Wisconsin. So the guys going elsewhere, it's hardly an insult to suggest SOME of them may not have been able to gain admission into Wisconsin. It's also not an excuse.




-Comparing Football to wrestling recruitment is a bad comparison.  UW recruiting has to complete against SEC and BigTen. so same to lesser academic schools.  Wrestling has to recruit against MANY schools with much higher academic standards then WI.  Yet those tougher academic schools are doing great considering what they have going for them.
Mulvaney from WI goes to Bucknell, I just watched the Harvard 125er# (went an HS an hour away from UW) with the upset of the first round, the EIWA has some of the best wrestling programs in the nation (Penn, Princeton, Cornell).  Maylor went to Michigan initially, NW has a WI kid, on and on.  Academics IS an excuse for poor recruiting.

-Clearly Bielemana/Andersen used academics as an excuse for their failures.  Yet, Bielema had one of the best recruting classes ever the year or 2 before he left (russel wilson, Watt, half the offense line and TE went pro, etc)?  Why did he stink at Arksansas?  Sure as heck wasn't because of Ark. academic standards.  Andersen flamed out everywhere he went since UW and is currently a consultant for Weber State. They can state academics, but maybe they are just not good coaches? 

-UW had 12 just named All-Academic, which is a huge #.  Clearly they can find smart kids.  Lettini, Tal-S and a few other All-Academic's aren't developing as hoped.