The forum is a bit boring so...

[ramjet]

Clubs are not always that expensive several that I have gone to over the years allowed kids for zero cost. They all do. We do we train regularly for free it's called giving back. In some cases many try and work things out so kids have opportunities.

Clubs have elevated the quality of wrestling in the state. Not everything should or can be at the tax payers expense or under the guise of the WIAA. Politics gone wrong in many ways.

Schools are paramount to this sport continuing and cooperation between clubs and school,programs can help increase the level of competition. That said there are many opportunities that cost little to no money but some kids just chose not to go. Many many reasons not lol could even be covered here. But you are right Padre each program needs to find their way to attract and retain wrestlers. Come down to grass roots.

I think those who can or want to will.

Nothing at all to do with politics......inappropriate.

Umm read it again maybe you will understand what I was saying. If not pm me I will,guide you through it.

[downtown]

The numbers clearly show that 12 weight classes is what there should be.  But the reason schools can't field a full lineup is because they aren't good at selling their product (sport).  I don't care what coaches say about the excuses why they are not getting kids out.  The reason is they aren't good at selling their sport, they don't promote it at all levels and they don't surround themselves with people who want to be good.  Frankly they take the easy way out and make excuses.  I have seen MANY teams that once were nothing and turn into conference champs and state team qualifiers.  What happened was they got a new coaching staff in place that didn't make excuses and did the dirty work and got it done.  Stop making excuses and work harder. 

Wow, I did not know I (and many of my counterparts at other schools) were not working as hard as we can.   I(we) have been at the top and the bottom.  Sometimes there is nothing you can do or no amount of work that will make it work.

I didn't say anything about being at the top or the bottom.  I said about filling a full lineup.  If you can't field a full lineup almost every year then yes you are lazy at promoting your program.  You can be insulted all you want but it is reality.  Take a look in the mirror and be honest with yourself and you know what the answer is.  Stop making excuses and work harder. 

[MNbadger]

You are unquestionably wrong.  I used to think what you do as well.  I have come to realize I was mistaken as are you.

[downtown]

Clubs are not always that expensive several that I have gone to over the years allowed kids for zero cost. They all do. We do we train regularly for free it's called giving back. In some cases many try and work things out so kids have opportunities.

Clubs have elevated the quality of wrestling in the state. Not everything should or can be at the tax payers expense or under the guise of the WIAA. Politics gone wrong in many ways.

Schools are paramount to this sport continuing and cooperation between clubs and school,programs can help increase the level of competition. That said there are many opportunities that cost little to no money but some kids just chose not to go. Many many reasons not lol could even be covered here. But you are right Padre each program needs to find their way to attract and retain wrestlers. Come down to grass roots.

I think those who can or want to will.

Those who can or want to will.  You are 100% correct.  The money is almost never the issue.  Less than 1% of the time is the reason money and then there are scholarships that take up the slack.  You know what is the reason.....kids don't want to.  That's it, no big secret.  They have other interests besides wrestling all the time.  Believe it or not these kids lives don't revolve around wrestling.

[downtown]

You are unquestionably wrong.  I used to think what you do as well.  I have come to realize I was mistaken as are you.

I have been at this a long time.  Seen programs rise from nothing and all of them had the same thing in common.  The staff was hungry and non complacent.  Seen great programs fall to average.  They had coaches who lost the burning fire and became complacent.  Sounds like you have become the latter.

[DocWrestling]

Coaches are not the issue at 95% of programs.  They are trying.  Some feel defeated and that zaps their energy.

Even if coaches were the solution, there are not guys just sitting around wanting to take these programs and change them.

We are talking about fewer athletes but the other issue that is huge in all sports is the fact that there are fewer that even want to coach.

The present expectations of coaches along with overbearing parents just can't seem to be made up for by the huge salaries they get.  

Try to find teachers with wives and families and ask them to commit their entire winters to wrestling and there is nothing that makes that healthy for wrestling AND families.  The sacrifices that coaches make in wrestling seasons with so many long Saturdays and covering both Thanksgiving and Christmas is immense.  Every other sport has much less weekend commitment and suits families much better.

I truly wish more coaches would buck the system and go to 2-3 tournaments and schedule more duals/triangulars and wrestle fewer matches.  I bet you would have more wrestlers, happier families, and happier coaches.

[padre]

The numbers clearly show that 12 weight classes is what there should be.  But the reason schools can't field a full lineup is because they aren't good at selling their product (sport).  I don't care what coaches say about the excuses why they are not getting kids out.  The reason is they aren't good at selling their sport, they don't promote it at all levels and they don't surround themselves with people who want to be good.  Frankly they take the easy way out and make excuses.  I have seen MANY teams that once were nothing and turn into conference champs and state team qualifiers.  What happened was they got a new coaching staff in place that didn't make excuses and did the dirty work and got it done.  Stop making excuses and work harder.  

Wow, I did not know I (and many of my counterparts at other schools) were not working as hard as we can.   I(we) have been at the top and the bottom.  Sometimes there is nothing you can do or no amount of work that will make it work.

I didn't say anything about being at the top or the bottom.  I said about filling a full lineup.  If you can't field a full lineup almost every year then yes you are lazy at promoting your program.  You can be insulted all you want but it is reality.  Take a look in the mirror and be honest with yourself and you know what the answer is.  Stop making excuses and work harder.  

Simply not true. With injuries, grades and suspensions you will lose wrestlers during the year.  Do I believe if you are a D1 program you should be able to fill all weights? Yes.  However as you get into the smaller schools we just don't have that benefit to have multiple kids at each weight. Besides maybe Stratford and Fennimore this year I don't think any D3 schools could take a major hit of the above issues.

That doesn't mean teams that could stay away from these issues and fill their lineups shouldn't be rewarded because they fill their classes.  Plus you don't know which weights your team is going to lose.

[Chad Steldt]

Build the culture, kids will join. Also, kids want to be a part of a team, and are fine with serving their role for a greater cause if it is worthwhile.

Weight classes should drop to fit our sport per national participation rates. Quality of sport will grow wrestling.

If high school wrestling wants to grow; 1. Hire teachers that coach, 2. Pay them for what they are worth.

[MNbadger]

You are unquestionably wrong.  I used to think what you do as well.  I have come to realize I was mistaken as are you.

I have been at this a long time.  Seen programs rise from nothing and all of them had the same thing in common.  The staff was hungry and non complacent.  Seen great programs fall to average.  They had coaches who lost the burning fire and became complacent.  Sounds like you have become the latter.

You know nothing about me or how hard I work(the same for many others you know nothing about).  Your statements make you appear to be quite naive for someone who has "been at this a long time".  My guess is that I've been at it at least as long if not longer. 

[ramjet]

Build the culture, kids will join. Also, kids want to be a part of a team, and are fine with serving their role for a greater cause if it is worthwhile.

Weight classes should drop to fit our sport per national participation rates. Quality of sport will grow wrestling.

If high school wrestling wants to grow; 1. Hire teachers that coach, 2. Pay them for what they are worth.

Hire teachers that teach.  

Now back to 12 weight classes. What would that look like?

Because many wrestlers travel out of state it seems those wight classes would have to follow the National trends.

I just wonder if we should just follow college weights and that be Universal across the Nation with College and High School. Standardize so to speak.

I just do not buy the argument kids will cut more. Maybe under the correct guidance they will muscle up and put weight on good lean muscle mass. 

[MNbadger]

Build the culture, kids will join. Also, kids want to be a part of a team, and are fine with serving their role for a greater cause if it is worthwhile.

Weight classes should drop to fit our sport per national participation rates. Quality of sport will grow wrestling.

If high school wrestling wants to grow; 1. Hire teachers that coach, 2. Pay them for what they are worth.

Hire teachers that teach. 

I agree with Chad.  We already hire teachers that teach.  As far as hiring teachers that coach, it has become very difficult to do.   There are less and less people choosing education as a profession. When you consider wrestling participation is less than bb, fab, etc. it shrinks the potential pool even more.  Then, you add that wrestlers tend to be more pragmatic than the average Joe it becomes even tougher.  This was discussed on a thread here some years ago.   
I have not seen an education major on the U of MN or Augsburg roster for ten or twelve years or more.   I remember when we were discussing this last time I went over the WIAC wrestling rosters and found nearly none. 

[Chad Steldt]

Ramjet,

Could not agree more. I envision both, though not identical, working hand and hand. Teaching, coaching, is a way of life after a person commits to the community. A school can have both. If you just hire techers to teach as you would say, sports will continue to be more privatized and numbers will continue to fall.

Ramjet, what size school are you from? What is the participation rate for wrestling and overall sport?

Look at MN, I believe their numbers are better than ours?

[ramjet]

Ramjet,

Could not agree more. I envision both, though not identical, working hand and hand. Teaching, coaching, is a way of life after a person commits to the community. A school can have both. If you just hire techers to teach as you would say, sports will continue to be more privatized and numbers will continue to fall.

Ramjet, what size school are you from? What is the participation rate for wrestling and overall sport?

Look at MN, I believe their numbers are better than ours?

I could go on about this but it will inevitably turn into some sort of political debate so I will not.

I will leave it at that if you want to discuss it through PM I am ok with that.

[imnofish]

At the time I retired from teaching, the increased demands imposed by various duties and regulations were already negatively impacting numbers of teacher-coaches.  That was about a decade ago, but I had noted a decline well before that.  Special Education teachers were especially impacted early onNot having at least an assistant coach in daily contact throughout the school year reduces your program's sustained visibility to the student body and can make it more challenging to recruit and retain athletes.  I've seen some great young teacher-coaches leave their posts early, because their workload was prohibitive or they needed to take on a second job to pay down student loans, support family, etc.  This has been especially impactful at the middle school level, at a time when daily contact between students and coaches is especially influential.  

[DocWrestling]

So we all agree that we have fewer wrestlers now than in the past.

So we all agree that we have fewer coaches now than in the past.

So we all agree that we have fewer programs now than in the past.

But many disagree that we should change something?

Personally I am tired of the talk about filling weight classes for a varsity dual.  The system is broken if we cannot even fill the weight classes for JVs.  If JVs continues like it is that just further rots varsity and will continue to worsen