Building a great wrestling program

[Ghetto]

I think it's great that the Kaukauna and Stoughton coaches spend time at youth tournaments. Would they if their kids wouldn't have wrestled in those tournaments? What if their kids would not have? Should they then skip their own children's events for someone else's?

We all know that most, if not all, coaches decide to coach because they love the sport. Is the model then that we have to love the sport more than our own kids to make a great program? That is one of the reasons I think that the current system is set up for failure.

[DocWrestling]

I don't disagree that coaches that do all that and make those sacrifices will have successful programs.

But that commitment is the same reason why so few are getting into coaching these days or coaches come in young and energetic and single and as they have families they have less time to do all this and rightfully so they have new priorities.

HS coaches need to make occasional appearances to show their face at youth/middle school practices but they are going to need to rely on parent coaches.  They do need to provide clinics for those parents.

In the end the HS coach has to provide the leadership and guidance and the parent volunteers need to give full respect to the HS coach.

The faults I see are
1) The HS coach gives very little guidance to programs below HS
2) The parent coaches think they know better than the HS coach and do their own thing and give no respect to the HS coach.  The parent coaches need to see the big picture.  Too often they are focused on their own kids or only the best kids.  They need to realize that to have a successful HS team they need to play a numbers game.  Retention has to be #1 goal.

Involved parents can be a big reason for success or they can be a big reason for program issues.

Ultimately fewer former athletes are becoming coaches and referees because they cannot deal with the parents and time commitment needed.  Not many wives and families are too happy giving away their husbands and dads for that many Saturdays during the season.

Your ideal coach is a single HS teacher with no kids.  Not a lot of those around

[ChargerDad]

For those duals that people refer to where the National Anthem lasts longer than the dual..  Cutting weight classes will have little to no impact on those duals..  Will be fewer forfeits but in most cases no more matches..  Plus, if you have a division with different weight classes, you make duals and tournaments between schools of divisions very difficult because the weight classes don't line up.. may even lead to more forfeits as you have kids that aren't allowed to make weight based on latest weigh in for a dual within the division..  what do you do with conference tournaments where a conferences has teams from multiple divisions??  It would be a nightmare for those teams who have wrestlers having to adjust to a different weights at times with only a few days between weigh ins..    The only real way to make a successful high school program is to develop a successful youth program.. 

I also think youth wrestlers wearing the colors of and wrestling for their school would help..  I appreciate the contribution of the elite clubs, and have practiced with several, and will continue to do so, but I think wearing their colors and wrestling under their name does little for the development of the program at school where they reside..  You go to a tournament where your local club doesn't, doesn't matter much, you go to a tournament where your school club goes, it would do wonders for the mentality of other kids in the school club for you to wear the school club colors.  Get them used to thinking team first at a young age:-)

[ramjet]

For those duals that people refer to where the National Anthem lasts longer than the dual..  Cutting weight classes will have little to no impact on those duals..  Will be fewer forfeits but in most cases no more matches..

While I agree with some of what you are saying the math shows differently 10 weight classes in D3 = less FF.

[BPfan]

Here is a question that is still somewhat on topic.  most great wrestling programs have a good amount of kids who wrestle freestyle and greco in the spring.  They also spend a lot of time wrestling in the summer doing open mats and camps.  We have people who will do this for us, we are just lacking in the number of participants.

My question is how do you go about getting kids involved in these.  For youth, how much do you stress to parents to take them to these without worrying about burning them out?  In high school, can you do much more than inform the wrestlers on all the possibilities to improve and let them make the choices themselves?  Unlike other sports you can't tell a kid if they do not show up they will not start because if they win the wrestle off they get the spot. (and with our numbers if the show up they most likely get the spot although that will hopefully change in a year or 2)

We have been getting kids interested in both of these but our number of kids doing these are still low.  Being from a small school we have many 3 sport athletes, and we need 3 sport athletes for any of our sports to be successful.   What I am finding is that in the spring most kids do not want to go through a baseball or track practice and then go to the wrestling practice when we have it, it makes for a long night for kids. Some will and has been paying off big for them.  my number of wrestlers joining in summer wrestling has grown every year that i have been here, but also still low numbers.  Are these things that as long as we see them improving we just need be patient as the numbers grow slowly year to year and when they youth get in to high school I will have older kids involved? 

   

[Handles II]

BP,
I think yours is a common problem/issue/positive. As a coach who wants, asks for, and expects kids from other sports to participate in "my" sport, I believe it is just as important that I encourage "my" athletes to participate in other sports.

If they aren't in a spring sport, you bet, I'm on their case to have them doing some wrestling and in the weight room. If they are in a spring sport, I give them some space and start working towards the summer wrestling.

I remember enjoying each sport that I was in for itself and that each helped me in some way (physically, mentally) for the other sport(s).
In a smaller school (as well as in many big schools) the number of quality athletes is limited, and even more limited are the number of kids interested, willing, or able to participate as a 3 sport athlete. I say (as do most experts on the subject) we should encourage participation is a variety of things.

That said I do feel that wrestling of all the sports is the most like playing an instrument or doing math, you need to practice on a regular basis or you make small mistakes, which in this sport can end up being very critical mistakes.

[bigoil]

Here is a question that is still somewhat on topic.  most great wrestling programs have a good amount of kids who wrestle freestyle and greco in the spring.  They also spend a lot of time wrestling in the summer doing open mats and camps.  We have people who will do this for us, we are just lacking in the number of participants.

My question is how do you go about getting kids involved in these.  For youth, how much do you stress to parents to take them to these without worrying about burning them out?  In high school, can you do much more than inform the wrestlers on all the possibilities to improve and let them make the choices themselves?  Unlike other sports you can't tell a kid if they do not show up they will not start because if they win the wrestle off they get the spot. (and with our numbers if the show up they most likely get the spot although that will hopefully change in a year or 2)

We have been getting kids interested in both of these but our number of kids doing these are still low.  Being from a small school we have many 3 sport athletes, and we need 3 sport athletes for any of our sports to be successful.   What I am finding is that in the spring most kids do not want to go through a baseball or track practice and then go to the wrestling practice when we have it, it makes for a long night for kids. Some will and has been paying off big for them.  my number of wrestlers joining in summer wrestling has grown every year that i have been here, but also still low numbers.  Are these things that as long as we see them improving we just need be patient as the numbers grow slowly year to year and when they youth get in to high school I will have older kids involved? 

   

I'd like to think that a coach can encourage but more importantly, appoint a captain and have a fellow student lead.

[BPfan]

Thanks Handles that is what I have been doing, as long as they are in a sport I am happy.  So many kids I have had lack the competitive attitude. Not just when competing against other schools but just competing for a varsity spot. (small school problems)

I have been trying to encourage some that if they can really focus in study hall and get all there home work done there is time to go to freestyle/greco practice, although not many kids take me up on that.   I am seeing more and more of them in the summer though so i can not complain to much.

its just so much harder to find time for some of these kids to get some practice in to stay sharp on there skills.  in most other sports you dont need a specific space to practice. you can meet up with your friends after school or on the weekend and go to the park to play catch, or a pick up game of some sport.  wrestling on the other hand you need a mat to practice on. Or a large living room and a mom who does not yell at you if you hit the coffee table.

[GradeTough]

BP,

Continue to encourage the kids to at least stay active. A few creative recommendations is to shadow wrestle 15 or 20 minutes every other day or get a few blankets and spread on the floor and practice with a sibling for 15 or 20 minutes. If the kids aren't practicing their moves then recommend they get stronger and stay in shape (circuit training is a great alternative). Not every kid understands that practice builds mastery to help reduce those mistakes, build confidence and strengthen that competitive spirit.

A few other ways is to maybe send out a like to some YouTube videos of some great matches, inspirational wrestling talks, etc. Heck, kids are on YouTube like it is going out of style. Do your best to keep them engaged.

[MNbadger]

Just like in football schools should be going after the Asst coaches of these top programs. Neenah just picked up an asst coach from Kaukauna last season and he is turning the program around fast. One of the biggest issues in WI is most of the coaches have little to no experience before taking over the program.
This would not happen in Football or Basketball at the rate it does in wrestling, It's hard to build a strong program when you have no experience coaching in one.

Very true.

We have to get wrestlers into the field of education. Not just teachers, but people looking to be administrators. It's a whole lot easier to build when the person in charge has a clue what your sport is about. I truly believe that if our last principal wasn't from a wrestling town that they would have cut our program 10 years ago.

This might start a firestorm especially with a few select individuals on here but I have mulled it over and think I should speak my piece.  I am not trying to start a battle or political debate either.

I have been around a decently long time.  Since my days in college and college wrestling, I have seen fewer and fewer wrestlers choosing education as a career.  I often discuss this situation with teachers, wrestling coaches (youth to college), and "wrestling people".  In my opinion, this situation will only get worse over time.  I will not tell you I have an answer as my answer would create too much trouble.

In general, fewer and fewer people are entering education.  The economy has improved and education is a phnomenal job when the economy is poor, not so good when the economy improves as it has in the last number of years.  Now add to this, we are looking for wrestlers and they are more rare numbers-wise than say basketballers or footballers.
Yes, coaching takes time from the rest of your life and family.  Many of us willingly accepted this trade off as wrestling is our passion.  The problem is, this kind of person is rare to begin with. Then, we get to the point where we want to also find this rare person and get them to take a job (teaching) that is low paying as compared to other options a college-goer has.  The result is and has been very predictable. 

One of the last discussions I had was with a very successful small private college coach about the dearth of education majors in the wrestling world.  He made sense when he said that he told prospective students that they should choose a different school or a different major due to the expense of said private college.  I have a great deal of respect for him being that this no doubt cost him some pretty darned good recruits over the years.

To add to all this, Wisconsin has made some choices which make education even less desirable financially than surrounding states.  This makes things even more difficult no matter how you slice it. There can be other things like a district that is unfriendly to athletics, unfriendly to wrestling or both which happens in many places.

In closing, if you have a coach that is passionate and doing things right, be thankful.  If you think they are not, you are likely incorrect.  Be careful of what you think they should do and how you deal with your feelings about it.

[Handles II]

Nice post. Very true. Great last sentence.

To add...Many districts, especially at the elementary levels, simply don't hire coaches (not just wrestling). Be it that the pool of applicants don't coach or don't want to coach, or it's a decision by the hiring committee to not hire coaches.

But yes, very few wrestlers go into education, of those who do, some of those want absolutely nothing to do with the sport.

[DocWrestling]

some of those want absolutely nothing to do with the sport.

This seems to be a quiet secret we don't want to mention.  It seems that it is much more frequent in wrestling.  I know a lot of great coaches who were wrestlers but are coaching in other sports, some even coaching basketball.  They want nothing to do with wrestling for various reasons.

Shrinking that pool of candidates hurts wrestling more than other sports because I know a lot of assistants and middle school coaches that coach a sport they never played.  Nobody really does that but it can work.  Just ask Jerry Marking and the Campbellsport dynasty he built after being hired and knowing nothing about wrestling.

[Ghetto]

All things are interconnected. Do the educators not in coaching stay away from wrestling because of the time commitment? Is it because they don't want to coach at all? Parents can be a real deterrent to anyone wanting to get into the field, regardless of sport.

Fringe sports like wrestling, gymnastics, etc. suffer the worst because the pool of qualified people is small to begin with.

[MNbadger]

One of the most common traits of a wrestler is that they are pragmatic.  An inherently pragmatic individual is unlikely to choose education for their career path primarily for financial reasons.  This then limits the potential field of candidates even more. 

[thequad]

 I don't understand why we don't have more alumni wrestlers supporting the sport. The ones that do really do a good job. But we need more help in this area. Wrestlers that have been very successful just disappear. I was never very successful in the sport, but I still had a passion for it. What can be done to get these guys to help?