OTW Predictions

[ramjet]

ramjet...how can you say seeding is "all about spectators and tournament sell than the wrestlers"? I don't understand that comment. I have always thought that seeding is about getting the best competitors the opportunity to meet in the finals. Are you saying that you think seeding should go away and all tournaments should just be random placement? In that case the top 2 wrestlers could meet in the first round knocking one of them out of the top 2 opportunity.

In this case the best wrestlers could all be on the top of the bracket and the least skilled athletes could all be in the bottom half and the finals could be the #1 seed vs the #32 seed. I don't think that is "for the wrestlers"

I am interested in your point of view on this.

We are absolutely on the same page I just said it in a more confusing way.

Yes seeding is all about getting the perceived best two wrestlers to meet in the finals. I say perceived because if the criteria is defined but then opinion is used after the fact then it's not really seeding by objective criteria but by subjective criteria.

All this talk and all that matters is everyone gets the opportunity to wrestle and the fans get to see some good wrestling and competition.

This historically has been an excellent tournament and a pretty darn good measuring stick as to where the wrestlers are in thier divisions and statewide. I am sure this year will continue with that tradition.

One way to see if the seeding is spot on is if the two top seeds are in the finals......

[P.U.S.H]

We take for granted all of the online benefits to the sport.

Maybe tournament pre-seeds and tournament brackets shouldn't even be announced to the public until after the bracket is built by the coaches in the coaches meeting. 

[imnofish]

We take for granted all of the online benefits to the sport.

Maybe tournament pre-seeds and tournament brackets shouldn't even be announced to the public until after the bracket is built by the coaches in the coaches meeting. 

Probably right, but then what would we have to whine ask questions about?   

[npope]

ramjet...how can you say seeding is "all about spectators and tournament sell than the wrestlers"? I don't understand that comment. I have always thought that seeding is about getting the best competitors the opportunity to meet in the finals. Are you saying that you think seeding should go away and all tournaments should just be random placement? In that case the top 2 wrestlers could meet in the first round knocking one of them out of the top 2 opportunity.

In this case the best wrestlers could all be on the top of the bracket and the least skilled athletes could all be in the bottom half and the finals could be the #1 seed vs the #32 seed. I don't think that is "for the wrestlers"

I am interested in your point of view on this.

Not that I sit in any particular camp on this one, but there must be a rationale for no (or limited) seeding because that is what they do in the international styles, right? It's not that I am saying the international style of setting up the brackets is better that the traditional methods employed by folk style but rather, that there must be some strong rationale in favor of it because the international style uses it (and it is going to be around long after folk style is dead and buried). So, suggesting that it has no rational basis isn't quite correct. Rather, one might merely disagree with it.

[ramjet]

It certainly has to be tough to judge a particular wrestler if they have only last criteria and that wrestler is not from the area the tournament committee is failure with. If the coach is not a dynamic speaker capable of speaking the virtues of particular wrestler they may not get a favorable seed.

I think as Bulldog mentioned the seeding is to try and get the two top wrestlers in the finals if they get past all the other wrestlers which is not always the case. The idea is to create a competitive and equal opportunity tournament that is exciting and challenging. Not the easiest task that's for sure. But asking legitimate questions about the seeding procedures and some obvious desire pinches is not whining it's reasonable. One thing that allot of people have the perception of is that the seeding criteria and discussions are conducted in dark smoke filled room with a bunch of secretive discussions...........

This tournament is huge getting things in place and ready to go is a huge task and quick reasonable decisions have to be made to keep things moving and get the thing organized. A everyone who ne'er stands that and this group does that task very well. But agin having an open discussion here does not hurt anything asking questions does not hurt anything.

Good luck to everyone today.

[DocWrestling]

You also have to realize that coaches are not perfect.  There are wrestlers with criteria missing on trackwrestling list that maybe was added at the call-in or maybe never added.  There is always criteria entered wrong or missing especially with 50+ teams.

In a tournament like this I cannot think that they are possibly trying to set up the finals.  There are so many good wrestlers.  They are more likely trying to identify the top 4 and then the top 8 and splitting them on opposite sides of the bracket.

And then after all there work some #2 seed will be sick and it messes the bracket up some.

[DarkKnight]

You also have to realize that coaches are not perfect.  There are wrestlers with criteria missing on trackwrestling list that maybe was added at the call-in or maybe never added.  There is always criteria entered wrong or missing especially with 50+ teams.

In a tournament like this I cannot think that they are possibly trying to set up the finals.  There are so many good wrestlers.  They are more likely trying to identify the top 4 and then the top 8 and splitting them on opposite sides of the bracket.

And then after all there work some #2 seed will be sick and it messes the bracket up some.

Right on. with early bracketing, a higher seeded guy always seems to miss weight/or fall ill at some weight class, allowing a lower seeded wrestler the opportunity to move farther in the bracket without much trouble. Its all good though. Part of the modern scheme.

Im hoping to see some cool upsets today and tomorrow!