Lack of Stalling calls

ramjet · February 17, 2014, 11:51:20 AM

Thanks Chuck

Already have one coming from the high school Coach.

imnofish · February 17, 2014, 11:57:58 AM

Quote from: chuckref on February 17, 2014, 11:43:19 AM
There is no verbal warning rule but ref's do it. They might say "action" or "move" or something like that to get the kids working. There really is no standard and in my opinion, it should just be called right away because it is only a warning. I'm not trying to be mean here, but you guys should really get a rule book and read it sometime. I thought I knew wrestling but it was eye opening when I first became an official and read the actual rules. Stalling is covered pretty well in the book, but it's open to interpretation. Check out the guys with the arm bands on the wrong wrists.

Chuck

I would love to get my hands on a current rule book. I know a lot has changed since I quit coaching and I remember how valuable it was to attend rules interpretation meetings every year. One thing that I do remember is that getting a rule book seemed to be difficult if you were not coaching or reffing. Is that still the case? How could an old fan, such as myself, get their hands on one? I know coaches don't have enough of them to supply everyone in the stands.

chuckref · February 17, 2014, 12:16:20 PM

For about $14.40 (plus shipping) you can get the rule book and case book online on the NFHS website or you can sign up to be an official for $35.00 and get them for FREE

.

Chuck

shouldvewrestled · February 17, 2014, 12:17:43 PM

http://www.wiaawi.org/Portals/0/PDF/Sports/Wrestling/_16_stalling.pdf

This link is on the WIAA page all about stalling.

imwi · February 17, 2014, 12:37:39 PM

Quote from: chuckref on February 17, 2014, 12:16:20 PM
For about $14.40 (plus shipping) you can get the rule book and case book online on the NFHS website or you can sign up to be an official for $35.00 and get them for FREE .

Chuck

I think it's $50 now instead of $35

DrWhargoul · February 17, 2014, 01:46:40 PM

2012-2013...but it's also free...

http://lexfridman.com/blogs/training/files/2013/12/2012-13-Wrestling-Rules-Book-for-IA.pdf

thequad · February 17, 2014, 04:36:10 PM

The biggest problem is to get consistency from one ref to another, and in the different areas of the state. The WIAA should be putting out a dvd every year explaining controversial situations. Then official associations getting together and discussing these situations.

imnofish · February 17, 2014, 10:05:50 PM

Quote from: chuckref on February 17, 2014, 12:16:20 PM
For about $14.40 (plus shipping) you can get the rule book and case book online on the NFHS website or you can sign up to be an official for $35.00 and get them for FREE .

Chuck

Thanks, Chuck! Too many years since I coached or reffed. Plus my joints don't bend so great, anymore. Think I'll pass on the "free" rule book deal.

Quack · February 18, 2014, 06:28:02 AM

Quote from: chuckref on February 17, 2014, 11:43:19 AM
There is no verbal warning rule but ref's do it. They might say "action" or "move" or something like that to get the kids working. There really is no standard and in my opinion, it should just be called right away because it is only a warning. I'm not trying to be mean here, but you guys should really get a rule book and read it sometime. I thought I knew wrestling but it was eye opening when I first became an official and read the actual rules. Stalling is covered pretty well in the book, but it's open to interpretation. Check out the guys with the arm bands on the wrong wrists.

Chuck

And here lies the biggest part of the problem. Along with many of the rules. They cover it well, but leave it open to interpretation, and not everyone is on the same page for that.

MNbadger · February 18, 2014, 06:41:50 AM

Someone mentioned this a bit up in the thread but is a pet peeve of mine (actually a few).

Calling stalling should have nothing to do with the score. (happens too much late in a match to the winning wrestler doing things they have done all match)
Calling stalling should have nothing to do with it being the 3rd period.(if it is stalling in the 3rd, it was stalling at the first whistle)
Sprawling to defend a shot is NOT stalling.
I would prefer a referee not "coach" my wrestler or the other. If it i stalling, call it. If they are too rough, call it. Forget the verbal warnings.

firemanscarry · February 18, 2014, 01:41:56 PM

I actually prefer refs who give verbal warnings before making some calls. I don't coach wrestling, but I coach football. Some of the best refs I've seen prevent bad things from happening instead of reacting to them afterwards. I think the same can be done in wrestling.

Examples of good things I've heard in football. "Stop on the whistle," when a kid was riding that line and giving a little extra bump on the end of the play. Those little bumps aren't flag-worthy, but can lead to retaliation and eventually to a bad situation. "Huddle up, boys," when there is a stare-down after a play. That sort of thing often averts unnecessary roughness calls and ejections later in the game.

Yes, I have been known to occasionally ask a ref not to try and coach, especially when it comes to where players are lining up. I like my tall ends barely on the line of scrimmage. It helps some of our angles and cross-blocks. But sometimes a ref wants to move them up. So, I'll ask if he's legal. I'll get the "just barely" answer and then say that's just where I want him, don't coach him different. To be fair, though, I think more refs have asked me not to try and officiate than I have asked them not to try and coach.

Wrestling refs can calm a feisty match or get the wrestlers working without giving points. That's better than "deciding" a match with calls that could be avoided.

imnofish · February 18, 2014, 02:28:16 PM

Quote from: MNbadger on February 18, 2014, 06:41:50 AM
Someone mentioned this a bit up in the thread but is a pet peeve of mine (actually a few).

Calling stalling should have nothing to do with the score. (happens too much late in a match to the winning wrestler doing things they have done all match)
Calling stalling should have nothing to do with it being the 3rd period.(if it is stalling in the 3rd, it was stalling at the first whistle)
Sprawling to defend a shot is NOT stalling.
I would prefer a referee not "coach" my wrestler or the other. If it i stalling, call it. If they are too rough, call it. Forget the verbal warnings.

I agree with the highlighted statements, especially. These two situations probably lead to more controversies about stalling calls than any others. Obviously, stalling can be done at any time in the match, by either wrestler.

thequad · February 18, 2014, 02:35:45 PM

The biggest problem for this is getting refs to call it consistently as a group. There is a very big difference from on official to another and coaches know this, and coach accordingly.

OneEyedFatMan · February 18, 2014, 02:38:59 PM

Stalling is not a problem as long as everyone is wrestling. If you stall, you deserve to be penalized. If the other guy keeps pressing the attack and your guy keeps sprawling to avoid being taken down and not converting the sprawl to points, then don't you think that's stalling?

Big House · February 18, 2014, 02:47:55 PM

I see this too many times ... it's not the referee's decision to tie the score so it can be settled in overtime.

A desperate flurry of terrible shots in the last 10 seconds of a match should not be considered an offense ... and the kid the with a 1 point lead is not "running away". I agree that if one wrestler is avoiding contact for a decent amount of time then call the stall, but don't try to make 2-3 stalling calls in 10 seconds because you feel bad for the kid that had 5:50 to score and couldn't score.

I'd love to see a kid come out in the first 10 seconds of the match strong and have the referee call 2-3 stalling calls against the other kid. Everyone would think it's crazy! But it's just fine at the end of a match? Come on ...

Side note ... most of the referees that I've seen don't do this ... this is the exception to the rule.