Further discussion on whether their should be a uniform option vs. Singlet

[kluevercoach]

The WIAA has approved the Under Armor shirt and board short for middle school. School have had to option for a few years now.The NFHS would have to approve that uniform for the WIAA to allow it for high school.

[ramjet]

wow little do we know. Then Jr High numbers should be increasing?

[whatever]

Why do you always feel the need to chime in on this?  We get it - you disagree.

Move on.  We can do without your snide condescension everytime this topic gets mentioned.

[Todd]

wow little do we know. Then Jr High numbers should be increasing?

Maybe they're not aware either.  You know, even if it doesn't affect numbers what is the big deal if they evolve and go to UA for unis? 

[Dale Einerson]

I was not a wrestler growing up but became a fan in high school and then more serious in college when my friends were on the team. I think the uniform discussions are viable...I have no doubt it may keep some from joining the sport.

On a related note, I was talking to some at youth regionals that said the K-2 group was booming in youth wrestling with numbers significantly, as much as 50-100% bigger year on year in some tournaments...I suspect there is an age of maximum self-awareness or concern about public perception...probably late grade school to middle school I am guessing.

I remember the Cheesehead duals uniform a few years back, it was a 2-piece and it was coveted...

[DocWrestling]

wow little do we know. Then Jr High numbers should be increasing?

Oh Ramjet!  You chimed in a million times in the last thread and the discussion was much about Kaukauna wearing two piece uniforms for middle school.  And I am sorry you did not know that high school follows the national federation with only minor WIAA adaptations.

Now you either did not bother to read what others were writing or you conveniently forgot to make your snide comment about middle school numbers.

I will just always picture you sitting at your computer wearing your singlet reliving the old days after you went to work with your singlet on under your clothes   Sorry but you bring me great humor as a debater because you just rip on others and that is not a discussion/debating technique I am aware of.

[kluevercoach]

Ramjet you are right the numbers did go up this year in Kaukauna. It was our first year with the two piece uniform. I hope others follow suit.

[ramjet]

Well interesting that whatever and Doc neither knew that jr high can wear an alternative uniform but still persist on thinking it is the reason kids will not wrestle. Maybe some but that is not the fundamental reasons just maybe one reason for those who are looking for an excuse.

Wrestling is tough demanding sport. It takes allot of hard work and commitment and is physically demanding many kids are just to soft to do it. Many parents worry about little johnny getting hurt and having to work so hard. So get off your high horse this topic has been posted and polls that all favored the singlet put up many times. The majority of the people here agree with the singlet but many could care less of it was an option.

The first time one kid gets his fingers caught up into the loose material of the board shorts and comes off with a dislocated finger it will be you Doc screaming bloody murder about how unsafe those uniforms are. Or how this kid lost this match because the kid "grabbed the shorts" to turn him.

Too bad I disagree whatever the singlet was developed for good reason. Practical reasons and whatever too bad I have an opinion you have your opinion I have mine because mine does not agree with your I should not post? WRONG

Now I will go out on limb here I bet the Kaukauna coaches are doing more than just changing to board short to get good participation. Just a guess though.  That program has had some really good team success and success breeds success. But heck maybe it is just the board shorts.

[DocWrestling]

The first time one kid gets his fingers caught up into the loose material of the board shorts and comes off with a dislocated finger it will be you Doc screaming bloody murder about how unsafe those uniforms are. Or how this kid lost this match because the kid "grabbed the shorts" to turn him.

Because a forum is for tossing out ideas (and I have tossed out some crazy ones) and discussing and debating I will continue with your position that 2-piece uniforms could lead to injuries which has been brought up by others.

If this was truly true or a major concern (I am not saying it cannot happen), why would any coach risk allowing their athletes where shorts and a T-shirt in practice?  Is every coach risking injuries in practice because they don't require singlets in practice?  Are coaches negligent for not requiring singlets in practice.  Think of the hours of practice time where nothing occurs but it is going to happen in matches which is probably 1% of the overall wrestling time for an athlete in a season

I have been part of many live goes that were all out training battles where we had on sweatshirts, sweat suits, sweat pants, stocking hats, etc and never saw an injury.  They could happen but risk is very minimal.  How many fingers get caught up in clothing in soccer, football, basketball?

[ramjet]

Doc the only issue I have with your uniform suggestion is this and again I could care less if everyone wears them or you could offer them.

My issue is this: The singlet is not the major reason for drop in participation in wrestling it may one of the excuses for not trying however the reasons for a lack of participation as I see them are as follows;

1.) It is a tough demanding sport where a kid of lessor talent can get the crap beat out of him or her. Demanding in diet and physically demanding from training stand point. It takes a ton of commitment from parents and the athlete.

2.) Kids now specialize in sports and concentrate on one sport as opposed to participating in several so when they make the choice it is not always wrestling.

3.) To go along with the above there are more offering to lighter athletes such as Cross Country Track or soccer where they can have some success and not get beat up.

4.) Lower fan following want good example look at the recent announcement from IOC.

5.) Lower enrollment numbers this effects D3 more than D2 and D1.

6.) Parents..........they do not want to see little johnny get pounded on for 3 periods by tough well conditioned an trained athlete. They would rather they get participation medal in soccer. We have become a "everyone gets medal society". Its tough at the youth level level is there any other sport where kids come off the field (mat) of play crying?

[whatever]

Well interesting that whatever and Doc neither knew that jr high can wear an alternative uniform but still persist on thinking it is the reason kids will not wrestle. Maybe some but that is not the fundamental reasons just maybe one reason for those who are looking for an excuse.

Wrestling is tough demanding sport. It takes allot of hard work and commitment and is physically demanding many kids are just to soft to do it. Many parents worry about little johnny getting hurt and having to work so hard. So get off your high horse this topic has been posted and polls that all favored the singlet put up many times. The majority of the people here agree with the singlet but many could care less of it was an option.

The first time one kid gets his fingers caught up into the loose material of the board shorts and comes off with a dislocated finger it will be you Doc screaming bloody murder about how unsafe those uniforms are. Or how this kid lost this match because the kid "grabbed the shorts" to turn him.

Too bad I disagree whatever the singlet was developed for good reason. Practical reasons and whatever too bad I have an opinion you have your opinion I have mine because mine does not agree with your I should not post? WRONG

Now I will go out on limb here I bet the Kaukauna coaches are doing more than just changing to board short to get good participation. Just a guess though.  That program has had some really good team success and success breeds success. But heck maybe it is just the board shorts.

See, Ramjet, this is your problem.

1 - You post the same stuff repeatedly without adding anything to new to an argument.

2 - You then completely miscontrue what anyone who disagrees with you ever said.

3 - You then get all snide and snippy and then become a jackwagon when people get tired of you.

NOWHERE did Doc or I EVER say changing the uniform would magically solve all problems.  We simply said it would help in a nuimber of ways and then you keep chiming in with illogical, nonsensical points and you do it nonstop.  Way to exaggerate the potential for injury with board shorts.

You also keep bringing up the argument about what successfull programs do.  Let me try to make this real simple for you:

Nobody is suggesting that a uniform change will help struggling programs solve all their problems.  We are saying a change could help ALL programs.

Do you get that now?  ALL PROGRAMS could be helped by a change in uniforms.  Therefore, I don't care what Luxemburg or Ellsworth is doing differently from BarneyFifedom High School or West Bangkok.

If Kaukauna saw 5 additional kids come out because of the uniform change, multiply that by every school district and then figure a possible bump at the high school level and we are talking about possibly adding thousands of kids to wrestling.  Now, of course, you will disagreee with this and either make your snippy comments about "....go take it to the WIAA then..." or you will give a myriad of reasons why kids don't come out for wrestling.

Now let's make this clear, too.  We don't expect every kid to come out for wrestling because of a uniform change.  And we know that some kids will have excuses regardless of any change.  That is not what is being discussed.  We are simply talking about changing a widely-held negative perception that stems from the singlet - that's it.

As for you  to not being able to post because I don't agree with you.  YOU are WRONG again.

Post as often as you want.  Just stop saying the same crap on the same threads and you using  your same, tired, old tactics.

It get's old.  Real old.  But if you insist on showing people your ugly side, by all means - post away.

Thanks in advance.

[cramps]

I think the real reason is, the kids would have a hard time trading board shorts and under armour vs. a singlet at the national tournys

[ramjet]

This post is prime example of your ugly side Whatever and repetitive posts saying the same thing.

So how many different ways do you and Doc have to post this uniform thing until you get everybody to sing kumbya together and agree with you?

There has been 4 threads and two polls both polls overwhelmingly agree with the singlet.

[ramjet]

I think the real reason is, the kids would have a hard time trading board shorts and under armour vs. a singlet at the national tournys

Hard to carry them like a trader trading beaver pelts. 

[whatever]

Ramjet= Jackwagon

So how many different ways do you and Doc have to post this uniform thing until you get everybody to sing kumbya together and agree with you?


Exhibit A.