WIAA Individual Tournament Brackets Reveal Show Sunday

beastmode · February 20, 2023, 11:05:56 AM

I don't understand how many of you are surprised by the seedings. The WIAA has had these criteria on its website all year. My son will most likely have his second-round match with a 47-2 freshman, oh well. As we say in our house, "earned not given" Good luck to all of the competitors, and may the best man win.

tyben · February 20, 2023, 11:22:25 AM

Quote from: beastmode on February 20, 2023, 11:05:56 AMI don't understand how many of you are surprised by the seedings. The WIAA has had these criteria on its website all year. My son will most likely have his second-round match with a 47-2 freshman, oh well. As we say in our house, "earned not given" Good luck to all of the competitors, and may the best man win.

Don't like how some of the seeds turned out but it's probably impossible to find a formula that makes all the brackets work out the best. My only complaint would be to get that video out at the beginning of the year so everyone knows the criteria, not just some coaches. Apparently the criteria was out there on the WIAA site, didn't know that, but maybe all the coaches knew that?

Fan1 · February 20, 2023, 11:23:34 AM

12 losses, non-sectional champion, couldn't find any significant wins that would give criteria point 2 for common opponents versus the other competitors in this loaded bracket.

When you say deserves better placement, based on what? This is not a dig at all just wondering how a seeding system could account for what you would be looking for?

In regards to how the top 3 seeds played out this bracket, not ideal but when you are good enough to win the bracket are you really losing sleep over being the 1, 2 or 3? I can't imagine the kids or coaches that believe they can win the whole thing are worried about not having the "easiest" path to a state championship.

hutgoose · February 20, 2023, 11:30:06 AM

With one of the top criteria being competition against common opponents, it would benefit wrestlers to stay in the same weight class for the season. The ones who bump up or down will miss out on points on that critera. - just my thought.

rankwizard · February 20, 2023, 11:52:23 AM

The seeding system in it's infancy, of course there are obvious changes that can be made... I have a good list of 10 improvements that would make it alot better, but i dont care for heavy discussion right now.

All complaints are warranted, but wrestle who ya got and go from there! Even if the seed doesn't make logical sense

The Legend · February 20, 2023, 12:19:24 PM

tyben, Really trying to fully understand your criticism. It's on the WIAA site. Do you need help finding it? Do you believe that "some coaches" Shouldn't know it? I don't mean to break your heart but HS Sports are Scholastic. They are for student athletes. The WIAA rely on "some coaches" to give input to provide a better product however this isn't for your enjoyment as much as it is for the kids. Whether you know the seeding criteria as a fan or parent is insignificant. Based off your prior comments you are from a certain area of the state where you should have inside knowledge from the person who helped create the seeding criteria.

Razor Ramon · February 20, 2023, 01:47:48 PM

Two things stick out about the way the WIAA has setup this garbage seeding process:
1. You're penalized for being a Freshman.
2. They are devaluing winning because h2h wins clearly mean nothing.

If the WIAA wants to find a way to start working smarter they will start utilizing the great resources throughout the state. WI Wrestle and WI Grappler. Common sense has gone out the door with the way it is now.

ChargerDad · February 20, 2023, 02:28:49 PM

Quote from: Razor Ramon on February 20, 2023, 01:47:48 PMTwo things stick out about the way the WIAA has setup this garbage seeding process:
1. You're penalized for being a Freshman.
2. They are devaluing winning because h2h wins clearly mean nothing.

If the WIAA wants to find a way to start working smarter they will start utilizing the great resources throughout the state. WI Wrestle and WI Grappler. Common sense has gone out the door with the way it is now.

Freshman are at a little disadvantage, yes. It's not reasonable to not consider last years tournament results because they may be the best predictor there is for this years tournament.

Polls have no place in seeding. They are opinions and every one has bias even when most often it's unintentional.

Head to head is literally the first criteria.

As for the freshman, I get it, but the biggest complaint I've seen so far is for a 3 seed. At that point all you are doing is arguing as though being there is an award for being the 1 seed. It will be rare for a freshman to be a 1 seed in a bracket dominated by older wrestlers, and the 3 seed means not facing a top 4 wrestler until the semi's, and the top guy not until the finals, and for me that means the system is doing a pretty good job.

neutral · February 20, 2023, 02:51:27 PM

Quote from: Fan1 on February 20, 2023, 11:23:34 AM12 losses, non-sectional champion, couldn't find any significant wins that would give criteria point 2 for common opponents versus the other competitors in this loaded bracket.

When you say deserves better placement, based on what? This is not a dig at all just wondering how a seeding system could account for what you would be looking for?

In regards to how the top 3 seeds played out this bracket, not ideal but when you are good enough to win the bracket are you really losing sleep over being the 1, 2 or 3? I can't imagine the kids or coaches that believe they can win the whole thing are worried about not having the "easiest" path to a state championship.

Not complaining about the 1-3 seeds - any of them should be able to parlay any of those into a championship. Just think that just because you can't solve the best wrestler at the weight, but still qualify for state ... maybe you deserve a shot against somebody else (maybe even one of the other two).

That was the only advantage of the old system - sectional qualifiers went to opposite sides of the brachets ... for exactly that reason.

Perhaps - after seeding by criteria - make adjustments to ensure no possible same sectional match-ups prior to Friday (2 rounds). I'd bet that, while his odds might not be any/much better, Ryan wouldn't mind being the 15 or 16 seed. (4-5 of those losses were to Wolbert)

tyben · February 20, 2023, 03:52:23 PM

Quote from: The Legend on February 20, 2023, 12:19:24 PMtyben, Really trying to fully understand your criticism. It's on the WIAA site. Do you need help finding it? Do you believe that "some coaches" Shouldn't know it? I don't mean to break your heart but HS Sports are Scholastic. They are for student athletes. The WIAA rely on "some coaches" to give input to provide a better product however this isn't for your enjoyment as much as it is for the kids. Whether you know the seeding criteria as a fan or parent is insignificant. Based off your prior comments you are from a certain area of the state where you should have inside knowledge from the person who helped create the seeding criteria.

Maybe you aren't following, I was saying that if all the coaches know the criteria, then I have no complaints because no set of criteria will ever be perfect. So if it was on the WIAA website and all the coaches knew that, all is fair. Of course, having the video out earlier would be good for fans and parents, it was a great video that explains things very well. Because I am from an area of the state of a person that created a program that develops and sorts criteria for about every wrestling tournament in the country really has nothing to do with the criteria chosen by tournaments. Pretty sure the Coach's Association picks the criteria, maybe the WIAA too, not sure. You haven't broken my heart, and thank you for explaining the HS sports are scholastic, although not sure why that relates to anything we are talking about.

ClipperRedDevilHornetRedBird · February 21, 2023, 07:35:48 AM

Include 8th grade WWF State results, to solve the Freshman dilemma... Yeah, yeah.. It's MS... Blaa... Blaa... Blaa... It is also a single division state result.

No One Cares · February 21, 2023, 08:18:48 AM

Quote from: RedBuzz on February 21, 2023, 07:35:48 AMInclude 8th grade WWF State results, to solve the Freshman dilemma... Yeah, yeah.. It's MS... Blaa... Blaa... Blaa... It is also a single division state result.

Yeah, let's add Fargo results. And the Elkhorn FS/GR tourney. And Dominate in the Dells. And the Wautoma Stingers Youth tourney. Let's also factor in how they fared in live go's at their club.

bigoil · February 21, 2023, 08:25:30 AM

Quote from: No One Cares on February 21, 2023, 08:18:48 AM
Quote from: RedBuzz on February 21, 2023, 07:35:48 AMInclude 8th grade WWF State results, to solve the Freshman dilemma... Yeah, yeah.. It's MS... Blaa... Blaa... Blaa... It is also a single division state result.

Yeah, let's add Fargo results. And the Elkhorn FS/GR tourney. And Dominate in the Dells. And the Wautoma Stingers Youth tourney. Let's also factor in how they fared in live go's at their club.

what about GPA?

New School · February 21, 2023, 08:39:24 AM

Allow the kids to put down which club they belong to so they can avoid wrestling their friends.

If two kids from the same club get to the finals, they don't have to wrestle and both get first place medals.

Allow all qualifiers to mark down 1-15 the order of the kids they'd most like to face to least like to face.

hutgoose · February 21, 2023, 09:09:01 AM

Quote from: bigoil on February 21, 2023, 08:25:30 AM
Quote from: No One Cares on February 21, 2023, 08:18:48 AM
Quote from: RedBuzz on February 21, 2023, 07:35:48 AMInclude 8th grade WWF State results, to solve the Freshman dilemma... Yeah, yeah.. It's MS... Blaa... Blaa... Blaa... It is also a single division state result.

Yeah, let's add Fargo results. And the Elkhorn FS/GR tourney. And Dominate in the Dells. And the Wautoma Stingers Youth tourney. Let's also factor in how they fared in live go's at their club.
what about GPA?

Some freshman...especially those that are not 2x 8th graders, aren't old enough for Fargo prior to their Freshman year.