What do you think of the new Competitive Balance idea?
Here are the facts of what will happen next year...
Luxemburg-Casco and Prairie du Chien will be moving up to D1.
- Because of these two teams moving up, the lowest two teams by enrollment in D1 will move down to D2.
Fennimore and Coleman will be moving up to D3.
- Because of these two teams moving up, the lowest two teams by enrollment in D2 will move down to D3.
All 4 teams will be in their new division for a minimum of 3 years.
Here are the biggest questions I have...
1. Does Lux-Casco jump in to the already stacked D1 Sectional with Kaukauna, Bayport, Hortonville, Pulaski, etc...? I would imagine that Coleman will fill Lux-Casco's spot in the D2 sectional.
2. What happens with a team like Saint Croix Falls? They earned 2 points in 2022 while they were in D3 by qualifying for Team State. Then they earned 1 point last year by making the Sectional Finals in D2. If they make the State Finals this year, they would get 3 points this year in D2. This would give them a total of 6 points over 3 years, but 2 of those points came while they were in D3. Do the D3 points not count?
I feel you need to have 6 point in the division below the division you would be promoted up. So if they have 4 in D2 after this year, then make D2 semis next year for 6 D2 points, then would move to D1?
I think there is also something that if you have any competitive balance points in a division, you cannot get bumped down a division if you are on the enrollment bubble between divisions.
LC might struggle in D1 next year. Unless of course, they're bringing in a bunch of studs in their freshman class. First, they're graduating quite a few wrestlers. Secondly, they sent 3 wrestlers to the challenge series finals.
I am not a fan of it, seems like you are punishing teams for having good programs year in and year out. It is not their fault they do well year after year. These teams will do fine regardless of division. What I don't agree with is that you could have a couple of really good classes graduate, and then not have much in the "cupboard" coming into your program the next few years and you are up a division due to past success.
Maybe the WIAA should consider letting programs move back down 1 level if they do not have a competitive balance point for 2 consecutive years.
Kaukauna moves up to WIAC?
;D ;D
Quote from: bulldog24 on February 14, 2024, 01:28:37 PMWhat do you think of the new Competitive Balance idea?
Here are the facts of what will happen next year...
Luxemburg-Casco and Prairie du Chien will be moving up to D1.
- Because of these two teams moving up, the lowest two teams by enrollment in D1 will move down to D2.
Fennimore and Coleman will be moving up to D3.
- Because of these two teams moving up, the lowest two teams by enrollment in D2 will move down to D3.
All 4 teams will be in their new division for a minimum of 3 years.
Here are the biggest questions I have...
1. Does Lux-Casco jump in to the already stacked D1 Sectional with Kaukauna, Bayport, Hortonville, Pulaski, etc...? I would imagine that Coleman will fill Lux-Casco's spot in the D2 sectional.
2. What happens with a team like Saint Croix Falls? They earned 2 points in 2022 while they were in D3 by qualifying for Team State. Then they earned 1 point last year by making the Sectional Finals in D2. If they make the State Finals this year, they would get 3 points this year in D2. This would give them a total of 6 points over 3 years, but 2 of those points came while they were in D3. Do the D3 points not count?
It's not necessarily what will happen next year just yet as there is still an appeal process for teams to go through. This is what happened with the fall season appeals - https://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/1294300
Only Wonewoc-Center Girls Volleyball had their appeal approved. Whether or not that laid the ground work for other programs to base their appeals on will be interesting to see.
Quote from: CLC FAN on February 14, 2024, 03:15:11 PMKaukauna moves up to WIAC?
;D ;D
Right...Get the WIAC schools upset that the University of Kaukauna should stay in high school division 1!
Though there will be tweaks for this plan, I've wondered about its application to 3 divisions. For example a D6 team in football that moves to D5 is a smaller percentage jump than a jump from D2 to D1 in wrestling.
Quote from: bulldog24 on February 14, 2024, 01:28:37 PMWhat do you think of the new Competitive Balance idea?
Here are the facts of what will happen next year...
Luxemburg-Casco and Prairie du Chien will be moving up to D1.
- Because of these two teams moving up, the lowest two teams by enrollment in D1 will move down to D2.
Fennimore and Coleman will be moving up to D3.
- Because of these two teams moving up, the lowest two teams by enrollment in D2 will move down to D3.
All 4 teams will be in their new division for a minimum of 3 years.
Here are the biggest questions I have...
1. Does Lux-Casco jump in to the already stacked D1 Sectional with Kaukauna, Bayport, Hortonville, Pulaski, etc...? I would imagine that Coleman will fill Lux-Casco's spot in the D2 sectional.
2. What happens with a team like Saint Croix Falls? They earned 2 points in 2022 while they were in D3 by qualifying for Team State. Then they earned 1 point last year by making the Sectional Finals in D2. If they make the State Finals this year, they would get 3 points this year in D2. This would give them a total of 6 points over 3 years, but 2 of those points came while they were in D3. Do the D3 points not count?
Where do you get a minimum of 3 years?
I think you need to go three years without earning a competitive balance point to be eligible to move back down. Since these teams all earned a point this year, they would need 3 years minimum. In some initial cases it might only be 2 years if they earned all 6 points the last two years, none this year, and none the next two years in the higher division?
It is a rolling three years. You move down the very next year if you fall below 6 points.
Quote from: Numbers on February 14, 2024, 07:50:31 PMI think you need to go three years without earning a competitive balance point to be eligible to move back down. Since these teams all earned a point this year, they would need 3 years minimum. In some initial cases it might only be 2 years if they earned all 6 points the last two years, none this year, and none the next two years in the higher division?
My understanding is that every year, you consider the last 3 years of points to decide if you need to move up to a higher division than your division based on your enrollment. You can move up one year, collect zero points there in that year, and then move back down the next year if you do not have 6 points in the last 3 years. Unless I am wrong, I have been wrong before and I'll be wrong again in the future. d
Since LC is likely going to win another title (barring upset), they'll have enough points to stay in D1 for at least 2 years.
Prairie du Chein will be in division 2 next year. Their enrollment would have dropped them to D3 next year. So their competitive balance points will put them back in D2.
Do girls teams switch sectional to where the boys team goes, if the boys go up a division?
I don't like it. It makes the lower divisions look more like "JV." What does a D3 state championship mean when the WIAA purposely moved the best teams up to higher divisions? That being said, I really don't like the fact that we have multiple divisions in wrestling, even though I understand why we do it.
Quote from: Scramble_king on February 15, 2024, 07:51:02 AMDo girls teams switch sectional to where the boys team goes, if the boys go up a division?
If they follow what they did in cross country, the girls' teams will stay in the current place. However, since there is only 1 division for girls' the WIAA may view it differently.
I think wrestling is just a casualty of a bigger picture for mainly other more mainstream sports like football and basketball. Private schools in larger cities can draw student athletes to their program due to their continued success, yet still be in a lower division based on their enrollment. In that regard, I agree with it. With wrestling, teams like Fenimore and Stratford who have had continued success merely based on their program and not their geographic location get penalized. We've always said in our household, success is earned, not given.
Quote from: beastmode on February 15, 2024, 08:48:49 AMI think wrestling is just a casualty of a bigger picture for mainly other more mainstream sports like football and basketball. Private schools in larger cities can draw student athletes to their program due to their continued success, yet still be in a lower division based on their enrollment. In that regard, I agree with it. With wrestling, teams like Fenimore and Stratford who have had continued success merely based on their program and not their geographic location get penalized. We've always said in our household, success is earned, not given.
I don't know if Fennimore is really going to see it as a penalty. They are close to being the best team in the state overall, if they aren't there. The people that get hurt the most are the other teams left behind in d3, who are now going to be striving for watered down titles.
I get the team aspect of moving up, but it seems very unfair for individual. My brother could be a 2 time champ in D3, but I only won one title, but it was in D2. My brother would have bragging rights for the rest of our lives. Doesn't seem right. Kids only have 4 years. Is it fair to spend 3 years in a higher division because kids that are now out of school were successful?
Quote from: Houndhead on February 16, 2024, 06:24:35 AMI get the team aspect of moving up, but it seems very unfair for individual. My brother could be a 2 time champ in D3, but I only won one title, but it was in D2. My brother would have bragging rights for the rest of our lives. Doesn't seem right. Kids only have 4 years. Is it fair to spend 3 years in a higher division because kids that are now out of school were successful?
I don't like it because you are adding depth to D1 (which is already the deepest division) and D1 kids will quit trying if they are too much of an underdog. I know some kids are already looking forward to tomorrow being done because their sectional bracket is a bit loaded in comparison to another sectional's bracket, and they've already lost several times this year to those guys.
On the flip side, some kids in D3 will be happier that they lost a stud or two that would normally be in front of him on the "depth chart".
I know teams have to average so many "points" over a three year period, but what is the break down of that? I know I have seen it before but I can not find it.
Quote from: BPfan on February 16, 2024, 10:30:50 AMI know teams have to average so many "points" over a three year period, but what is the break down of that? I know I have seen it before but I can not find it.
Sectional Final: 1 point
Sectional Champ: 2 points
State Finals: 3 points
State Champ: 4 points
This is the result of the 2% rule that has swept through our society. Since the private schools have had higher success in some of the more main stream sports, the institution feels they need to apply a new rule to the entire population instead of addressing the issue directly.
Some of the best teams have transfers and some just have the kids from their school district. Competitive balance was needed for private and public schools loading up with best kids in area. We know some of best wrestling teams in WI have had transfers so I'm not sure why some people are upset. There will still be plenty of good wrestlers in D2 and D3.
Quote from: rmk12175 on February 14, 2024, 02:01:04 PMLC might struggle in D1 next year. Unless of course, they're bringing in a bunch of studs in their freshman class. First, they're graduating quite a few wrestlers. Secondly, they sent 3 wrestlers to the challenge series finals.
Lux-Casco will be fine next year-- just not as dominant as they were this past year. I feel they will likely be placed with Kaukauna, Hortonville and Bay Port for sectionals... I am kinda curious how they're drawing that up currently.
LC beat KK at Pulaski high school tourney and LC won the middle conference tournament over KK-- plus they had some good backups on their high school team.
KK is ahead of the curve with recruiting and development of wrestlers though.
I'm not sure if this will be a huge factor in the future, word I've been getting is wrestling will be going to two divisions for boys.
Quote from: Handles II on April 12, 2024, 09:42:19 PMI'm not sure if this will be a huge factor in the future, word I've been getting is wrestling will be going to two divisions for boys.
I'd be sad about that for awhile, they better not do that. football and other sports get 6 or 7 divisions.
More kids would quit wrestling actually that way
[quote link=msg=681279 date=1712976139]
I'm not sure if this will be a huge factor in the future, word I've been getting is wrestling will be going to two divisions for boys.
[/quote]
That is quality content right there but keep in mind that what is funny to you and I can be taken as the truth by the millennials........
Quote from: Chris Hansen on April 13, 2024, 09:36:11 AM[quote link=msg=681279 date=1712976139]
I'm not sure if this will be a huge factor in the future, word I've been getting is wrestling will be going to two divisions for boys.
That is quality content right there but keep in mind that what is funny to you and I can be taken as the truth by the millennials........
[/quote]
Maybe Gen X
Kaukauna. Recruiting! Bwahahahahahaha! That's rich. I love it every time I hear it!!
Quote from: VQOriginal on April 14, 2024, 10:37:06 AMKaukauna. Recruiting! Bwahahahahahaha! That's rich. I love it every time I hear it!!
Recruiting is a broad term my friend, and not a negative term.
Kids that do not reside (or did not previously) in the KK school district perhaps would be a better description.
It would be interesting to see the breakdown of kids that live, or grew up in, the school district of the best teams. I get why kids gravitate towards great programs, can't blame kids and parents for wanting to be part of it.
Quote from: VQOriginal on April 14, 2024, 10:37:06 AMKaukauna. Recruiting! Bwahahahahahaha! That's rich. I love it every time I hear it!!
Yeah...I don't think Kaukauna is really recruiting. Great thing about open enrollment in the Fox Valley is I have at least 8 high schools to choose from (Kaukauna, Kimberly, Appleton East, West, North, Little Chute, Neenah and Menasha). (I will say I don't know the current open enrollment policies of all these schools)
If I live in the right location it is a short drive to any of the high schools in that area. I can pick and choose. If my wrestler is a beast on the mat, head to Kaukauna. I don't think this has changed. Except Kimberly has been historically over capacity so you had to live in the school district to get enrolled. But buy a house in Kimberly and I could hit most of those schools. I think the longest drive would have been to Neenah which was 17 minutes from Kimberly HS to Neenah High School.
Now add in Freedom and Wrightstown and you have some great options with open enrollment.
https://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/1307122
Looks like D1 it is for Luxemburg-Casco and Prairie du Chien and D2 for Coleman and Fennimore next year.
Has PDC won a state title?
Quote from: Houndhead on April 16, 2024, 07:20:15 AMHas PDC won a state title?
Nope. Two runner-ups and three Semifinalist appearances over the last five seasons.
Quote from: DKelly28 on April 16, 2024, 08:15:21 AMQuote from: Houndhead on April 16, 2024, 07:20:15 AMHas PDC won a state title?
Nope. Two runner-ups and three Semifinalist appearances over the last five seasons.
It sucks being moved up without ever winning a state championship.
Bulldog,
Agreed. When I see the word recruit, it makes my agent orange act up. We, as a family, chose to move here from Oshkosh. And I will say it outright, Oshkosh SUCKS. And I carry no shame in it. That city as a whole has taken a dive. We open enrolled both boys in Neenah. But by Liam's 6th grade year, it was clear Neenah wasn't the place to be. At all. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Neenah is a soccer/lacrosse town. There have been some great individuals to come out of Neenah. But the community in Kaukauna is what drew us in. We specifically made the move at 6th grade to avoid the "recruitment" phrase. We're here because of culture. Nothing else. The towns you mentioned, Wrightstown, Freedom, also great cultures there. We'll never fault anyone for making a move to better themselves. At any age.
Quote from: VQOriginal on April 17, 2024, 02:42:27 PMBulldog,
Agreed. When I see the word recruit, it makes my agent orange act up. We, as a family, chose to move here from Oshkosh. And I will say it outright, Oshkosh SUCKS. And I carry no shame in it. That city as a whole has taken a dive. We open enrolled both boys in Neenah. But by Liam's 6th grade year, it was clear Neenah wasn't the place to be. At all. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Neenah is a soccer/lacrosse town. There have been some great individuals to come out of Neenah. But the community in Kaukauna is what drew us in. We specifically made the move at 6th grade to avoid the "recruitment" phrase. We're here because of culture. Nothing else. The towns you mentioned, Wrightstown, Freedom, also great cultures there. We'll never fault anyone for making a move to better themselves. At any age.
Hey bud, I didn't mean it that way and i apologize if I razzled up a bad phrase. I know other top teams benefit from kids gravitating to their programs.. same way the college system is working in football and basically all sports. it's just how it works. college is definitely more for recruiting and it's not a negative term. high school is different and we all have mad respect for those top programs.
KK has been top of the line for awhile and they seem they are going to be that way for a very very long time. They are one of the gold standards for sure. They are one of the measuring sticks everyone measures themselves up against.
Quote from: DKelly28 on April 15, 2024, 11:40:43 PMhttps://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/1307122
Looks like D1 it is for Luxemburg-Casco and Prairie du Chien and D2 for Coleman and Fennimore next year.
Where do you see PDC to Division 1? i guess i can't find that
Quote from: rankwizard on April 19, 2024, 11:11:49 AMQuote from: DKelly28 on April 15, 2024, 11:40:43 PMhttps://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/1307122
Looks like D1 it is for Luxemburg-Casco and Prairie du Chien and D2 for Coleman and Fennimore next year.
Where do you see PDC to Division 1? i guess i can't find that
https://www.wiaawi.org/News/News-Article/performance-factor-results-in-winter-sports-divisional-movement
Quote from: rankwizard on April 19, 2024, 11:11:49 AMQuote from: DKelly28 on April 15, 2024, 11:40:43 PMhttps://www.wissports.net/news_article/show/1307122
Looks like D1 it is for Luxemburg-Casco and Prairie du Chien and D2 for Coleman and Fennimore next year.
Where do you see PDC to Division 1? i guess i can't find that
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h2BkylOaYbd09SQaNSFOL7PiDS0zPU1cNAM54yQWw1g/edit?usp=sharing
That is the sheet posted in the Wissports article I was referring to. Click on the BWR tab at the bottom for the wrestling section.
Travis Wilson lists PdC as having lost their appeal, which I believe was to stay in D2 instead of going up to D1 (despite the school's enrollment that will be used next year would've most likely put the school in D3).
Rankwizard,
Not mad at all. That was just an explanation of what we chose to do and the why's. There are always some making questionable moves. I believe that transparency is important. And I try to be that as much as possible. So I'll always offer up our circumstance. Leaving now doubts or questions to ask.