Man, looking at the schedule. NOT LIKING IT!
13 days off then 4 matches in 10 days
Good news is 3 of 4 at the Field House, make plans to be there:
2/9 Neb #16
2/11 at ILL #14
2/16 Rugters #17
2/18 Prd
Purdue has really improved too, we may not win another dual this year.
Or we could win three duals who knows that's why they wrestle the matches.
Illinois is the closes dual that the Badgers could win, but the others are pretty much losses! It's good to be a fan of your team, but start getting more realistic wrasstle63!
There is a clear path to winning every dual. Are we going to win all 4? Probably not. "but the others are pretty much losses" -actually they aren't. All 4 of those are close if you look at results instead of just saying they have no chance.
Quit it! We all have a chance at winning the lottery if we play, but most likely not! You have a whole lot of on the fence statements! Stay on your Badger side so at least we know where you stand, instead of jumping on and off the bandwagon! I do look at results and follow college wrestling pretty close and can clearly see it is unlikely that the Badgers win any of these duals! If I was Ben Askren would you agree with me?
197: Zack Chakonis (NW) dec. Eric Schultz (NEB), 10-9 (NW 3, NEB 0)
HWT: Conan Jennings (NW) tb-1 Patrick Grayson (NEB), 2-1 (NW 6, NEB 0)W)
125: #10 Sebastian Rivera (NW) major dec. Mitchell Maginnis (NEB), 17-6 (NW 10, NEB 0)
133: Jason Renteria (NEB) major dec. #19 Colin Valdiviez (NW), 15-5 (NW 10, NEB 4)
141: #12 Chad Red Jr. (NEB) dec. Alec McKenna (NW), 6-2 (NW 10, NEB 7)
149: #4 Ryan Deakin (NW) major dec. #10 Colton McCrystal (NEB), 11-2 (NW 14, NEB 7)
157: #8 Tyler Berger (NEB) dec. Shayne Oster (NW), 3-1 (NW 14, NEB 10)
165: #11 Isaiah White (NEB) tech. fall Michael Sepke (NW), 21-6 (NEB 15, NW 14)
174: #18 Johnny Sebastian (NW) major dec. Beau Breske (NEB), 11-3 (NW 18, NEB 15)
184: #7 Taylor Venz (NEB) dec. Mitch Sliga (NW), 2-1 (NEB 18, NW 18)
Note: Nebraska won by criteria 3.15.3 (total match points, 68-66) (NEB 19, NW 18)
So we have no chance to beat Nebraska when they won by criteria and we lost by 2?
We would be favored at 165, 174, 184, and 197. Eli lost by 1 to Red early. Crone can beat Berger. Also at 125 we could beat Maginnis that isn't as likely though. So?
#12 Illinois 18, Northwestern 17
125: #12 Sebastian Rivera (NU) dec. Travis Piotrowski (ILL), 9-3 ILL 0, NU 3
133: Colin Valdiviez (NU) dec. #20 Dylan Duncan (ILL), 12-6 ILL 0, NU 6
141: Mike Carr (ILL) dec. Alec McKenna (NU), 3-2 ILL 3, NU 6
149: #9 Ryan Deakin (NU) major dec. Eric Barone (ILL), 12-0 ILL 3, NU 10
157: #13 Kyle Langenderfer (ILL) dec. Shayne Oster (NU), 6-4 ILL 6, NU 10
165: #2 Isaiah Martinez (ILL) fall Michael Sepke (NU), 2:33 ILL 12, NU 10
174: Johnny Sebastian (NU) dec. David Riojas (ILL), 16-8 ILL 12, NU 14
184: #12 Emery Parker (ILL) dec. Mitch Sliga (NU), 8-3 ILL 15, NU 14
197: Regis Durbin (NU) dec. Andre Lee (ILL), 4-3 ILL 15, NU 17
HWT: Deuce Rachal (ILL) dec. #19 Conan Jennings (NU), 3-2 ILL 18, NU 17
Illinois beat NW by 1. So we have NO chance to beat them? Not saying we will win all these duals or even be favored but to say we have NO chance shows your wrestling knowledge. You can be negative or you can be realistic.
Dude you are so funny with your rational! Some teams match up better against others and could be a lesser team! I like how your blow out prediction of Indiana ended! I did say that Illinois would be the best chance of winning a dual, so don't put words in my mouth. Keep cherry picking your wrong points of views! That's your right to do so!
Quote from: Wrestling Thug on January 28, 2018, 12:14:44 PM
Dude you are so funny with your rational! Some teams match up better against others and could be a lesser team! I like how your blow out prediction of Indiana ended! I did say that Illinois would be the best chance of winning a dual, so don't put words in my mouth. Keep cherry picking your wrong points of views! That's your right to do so!
Why because my rational actually makes sense? Funny how that works.
I am really looking forward to see how the Badgers do against these teams.
These are all teams the Badgers could beat, unlike Michigan, Iowa, Penn State and Ohio State.
Beating Indiana, who only have 3 good wrestlers, was not very satisfying.
Mark Nebraska down as a loss. We will for sure lose to them after their dominant performance against Indiana today. They won by 5 points....sounds familiar.
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 28, 2018, 03:32:41 PM
Mark Nebraska down as a loss. We will for sure lose to them after their dominant performance against Indiana today. They won by 5 points....sounds familiar.
HAHAHA! Man they put it to IND ;D
Should be a fun 10 days to watch unfold.
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 28, 2018, 03:32:41 PM
Mark Nebraska down as a loss. We will for sure lose to them after their dominant performance against Indiana today. They won by 5 points....sounds familiar.
125 Elijah Oliver (Indiana) over Mitch Maginnis (Nebraska) (SV-1 3-1) IND fall
133 Garrett Pepple (Indiana) over Brian Peska (Nebraska) (Fall 1:56) UW 3-0
141 Cole Weaver (Indiana) over Chad Red (Nebraska) (TB-1 6-5) IND fall
149 Colton McCrystal (Nebraska) over Alajandro Raya (Indiana) (MD 15-3) UW 16-0 (TF)
157 Tyler Berger (Nebraska) over Austin Holmes (Indiana) (Fall 2:16) UW 14-2
165 Isaiah White (Nebraska) over Dillion Hoey (Indiana) (Fall 0:40) UW 23-8 (TF)
174 Devin Skatzka (Indiana) over Beau Breske (Nebraska) (Dec 8-3) IND 1-9
184 Taylor Venz (Nebraska) over Norman Conley (Indiana) (MD 12-2) UW 8-0
197 Eric Schultz (Nebraska) over Jake Kleimola (Indiana) (Dec 6-4) UW 6-5
285 Fletcher Miller (Indiana) over Patrick Grayson (Nebraska) (Dec 5-2) IND 2-3
And you know Donny Pritzlaff is just waiting for Barry when
Rutgers comes to town. Hopefully Alvarez shows up to watch the matches.
what I dont like is the fact that BOTH Iowa and minnesota are not on the schedule.
first when ever Iowa comes to town they bring fans and many average fans show up to see them and they are close.
second, U of M, well at least in my part of the state those tickets at the UM are a hot ticket and usually 5K for fans in the arena and they have moved that dual to the basketball court to make sure they fit in all the fans.
scheduling is a huge part of the success of the program. UW needs to have those local, teams with in 4 hours from Madison on the schedule every year or at least a couple of them. It certainly helps with promotion and getting the average fan out to any event!
outside to the average fan yes the Rutgers dual is something for the die hards but to be honest the average fan really doesnt have that much interest.
The DP deification club will be present. Can't believe he left Michigan after single-handedly making them what they are today. ;)
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 28, 2018, 12:33:53 PM
Quote from: Wrestling Thug on January 28, 2018, 12:14:44 PM
Dude you are so funny with your rational! Some teams match up better against others and could be a lesser team! I like how your blow out prediction of Indiana ended! I did say that Illinois would be the best chance of winning a dual, so don't put words in my mouth. Keep cherry picking your wrong points of views! That's your right to do so!
Why because my rational actually makes sense? Funny how that works.
No it hasn't actually worked for you. I did notice that Jason Renteria didn't wrestle today for Nebraska, so that score could of been different. I won't dwell on that though, because they put who they put out there for whatever reasons. All teams have to deal with hiccups in the season and concentrate for the big show! My point is if Wisconsin comes close to beating any of these teams we are talking about, it is a exaggerated outcome. Most likely the other teams best lineup isn't in the active roster. Look at individual results and trends! I'm gonna say that Isaiah White will beat Wick! Not a good match up for Wick. Similar body types and he has been wrestling awesome! I could say that Chad Red has a possible chance of losing even though I feel he is better than any of the Badgers! I feel like he is wrestling like an average guy this year and has actually regressed! Nebraska A team = 26 to 9 or B team 23 to 12.
Did you see that Nortwestern beat Minnesota? Using your rational wrasstle63 shouldn't the Badgers beat Minny, because their score was closer than Minny's!?
Evan Wick to Isaiah White before the match: " I broke Logan Massa, now I'll break you."
Evan Wick's next loss will be to iMar.
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on January 28, 2018, 06:31:14 PM
Quote from: littleguy301 on January 28, 2018, 04:32:13 PM
what I dont like is the fact that BOTH Iowa and minnesota are not on the schedule.
first when ever Iowa comes to town they bring fans and many average fans show up to see them and they are close.
second, U of M, well at least in my part of the state those tickets at the UM are a hot ticket and usually 5K for fans in the arena and they have moved that dual to the basketball court to make sure they fit in all the fans.
scheduling is a huge part of the success of the program. UW needs to have those local, teams with in 4 hours from Madison on the schedule every year or at least a couple of them. It certainly helps with promotion and getting the average fan out to any event!
outside to the average fan yes the Rutgers dual is something for the die hards but to be honest the average fan really doesnt have that much interest.
Definitely a bummer, but them's the breaks with a 14-team Big Ten and only 9 duals. I remember a year where, after the Big Ten schedule was done, Iowa and Penn State scheduled an extra dual. It would be cool if the Badgers cemented a permanent match with Minnesota, regardless of the Big Ten rotation.
I agree scheduling that "must" match for attendance reasons and recruiting.
actually I got thinking about this one, with the minnesota following and with Madison being at one end of the state having something in LaCrosse would be interesting. I would say green bay but maybe a tad longer for the minnesota fans.
since the badgers have traveled across the state to a practice in Ellsworth maybe taking the show on the road would be great also though I would think the NCAA might say something.
just an idea.
I would love to see a east and west or north and south division in wrestling.
7 teams in each division and with the strength of the big ten get another 3 duals in with like competition. top 3 from each and bottom 3 from each get after each other with the 4th teams in the mix getting tossed in some how. I think that would be great to some extent.
with wrestling being basically for most a non profit thing, I think for teams like UW having close duals with Ill, UM and Iowa every year would up attendance and maybe help with recruiting.
I know BD seems to be hanging in Minnesota some lately so might as well dual them ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Why don't Big Ten teams schedule a bunch of Triple Duals against each other?
Seems like that would be a simple way to get a bunch of matches an save on travel.
And the crowds would be bigger.
That would be sweet. I could totally see MN,IA and WI doing that. Of course, we'd be the whoopin' post.
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on January 29, 2018, 09:10:09 AM
Why don't Big Ten teams schedule a bunch of Triple Duals against each other?
Seems like that would be a simple way to get a bunch of matches an save on travel.
And the crowds would be bigger.
That would be a good idea for the bottom feeder programs that don't draw much for fans.
Quote from: bigG on January 29, 2018, 10:33:14 AM
That would be sweet. I could totally see MN,IA and WI doing that. Of course, we'd be the whoopin' post.
MN would not whoop us. They would probably win 6 matches and us 4.
MN cares about wrestling, though. Even people in the cities care about it. Madison and Milwaukee could give a rip (save for the nice clubs near Milwaukee). So if Eggum doesn't lead them in an upward trajectory, he'll be gone, or step down on his own, like I believe Ben would here. "There's your sign." In WI all you have to do is not stir the turd, apparently. We've been mediocre since 2000 with a few nice highlights; but not enough for a highlight reel. MN will eventually whoop us. But, since this triple dual would happen next year , or the following, we'd beat them from this point in time; because our best year is always gonna be next year, the way we're going; and have gone before. I believe Eggum would be out if next year the folks in MN didn't see some noted improvement. Not in Badgerland. they have more wrestling kids and more wrestling fans; so there is more pressure.
It's been our stagnation that has so many Badger fans wanting a new coach. Be one thing if we stagnated great. Nope, we're staganting low. This year IA is down. Watch, much as I dislike the Brands, they will be better next year. If BD stays, he might come in a notch higher, then drop the following year, then move up a spot the next year.
Here is the Badgers record, B1G finish, and NCAA finish since 2001 except 2008-2009 which I can't find.. List compiled manually, so may not be 100% accurate.. Doesn't look too bad, if this was North or South Dakota State, or Central Michigan... If this meets anyones expectations of what the Badgers should be, then your expectations are REALLY low or reality isn't a realm you live in.. to me, this is extremely underwhelming. Sure, there were a few respectable years from 2007-2011.. then 2012 dropping off to 41st at the NCAA's.. I think this says 2 things.. can't consistently recruit, and can't consistently turn mid level recruits into contributors, both of which are absolutely essential if we want to hang around where we did from 2007-2011, which is where I think most fans expect we should be.. I'll say this.. if my kid is lucky enough to be recruited by D1 schools in HS, UW sits behind both SDSU, NDSU, Northwestern, Central Michigan and Purdue as to places I'd encourage him to go over UW.. you shouldn't be able to say that about ANY of those schools outside of steering to school based on academic major...
2001-2002 11-10, 9th of 11 at B1G's, T-26 at NCAA's
2002-2003 9-7, 9th at B1G's, 23rd at NCAA's
2003-2004 17-6, 7th at B1G's, T-29 at NCAA's
2004-2005 10-3-2, T-5th at B1G's, T-15 at NCAA's
2005-2006 9-5-1, 7th at B1G's, 21st at NCAA's
2006-2007 19-3, 2nd at B1G's, 13th at NCAA's
2007-2008 14-4-1, 6th at B1G's, 17th at NCAA's
2008-2009 CAN'T FIND DATA
2009-2010 8-10, 3rd at B1G's, 4th at NCAA's
2010-2011 9-6-1, 4th at B1G's, 10th at NCAA's
2011-2012 5-12, 12th at B1G's, 41st at NCAA's
2012-2013 7-8, 10th at B1G's, T-27th at NCAA's
2013-2014 12-6, 7th at B1G's, 16th at NCAA's
2014-2015 9-4, 8th at B1G's, 17th at NCAA's
2015-2016 4-8, 8th at B1G's, 23rd at NCAA's
2016-2017 6-5, 8th at B1G's, 13th at NCAA's
But, but..... we're competitive in a bunch of weights. ::)
Oh I am informed, its called the eye test. And don't tell me what to do.
The Big Ten Conference results are extremely important since that is the conference the Badgers compete in.
Quote from: leg turk on January 29, 2018, 02:17:45 PM
Oh I am informed, its called the eye test. And don't tell me what to do.
Informed about St. Donny being the second coming? Yea we got that. The eye test gave you good information before too. I'd much rather trust the data.
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 29, 2018, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: leg turk on January 29, 2018, 02:17:45 PM
Oh I am informed, its called the eye test. And don't tell me what to do.
Informed about St. Donny being the second coming? Yea we got that. The eye test gave you good information before too. I'd much rather trust the data.
Yep that's it, bury your head in the sand, put the blinders on, drink the kool-aid... someday you will be frustrated also with The leader of this program. Good luck!
I'd like to be on SDSU's trajectory. That Bono guy is awesome. He does talk about his admin support and conversations that I don't think he would get at Wisconsin.
Quote from: Ghetto on January 29, 2018, 06:54:05 PM
I'd like to be on SDSU's trajectory. That Bono guy is awesome. He does talk about his admin support and conversations that I don't think he would get at Wisconsin.
He has done a nice job but we are talking the Big 12. A lot easier there then the Big Ten. With that being said Gross is a focus and Kocer is legit. They are having another good year.
Quote from: leg turk on January 29, 2018, 06:50:32 PM
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 29, 2018, 06:45:06 PM
Quote from: leg turk on January 29, 2018, 02:17:45 PM
Oh I am informed, its called the eye test. And don't tell me what to do.
Informed about St. Donny being the second coming? Yea we got that. The eye test gave you good information before too. I'd much rather trust the data.
Yep that's it, bury your head in the sand, put the blinders on, drink the kool-aid... someday you will be frustrated also with The leader of this program. Good luck!
I am, but I don't waste my time with a coach who has moved on and still isn't a head coach. You can get Barry but can't deny the stats JW posted.
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on January 29, 2018, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on January 29, 2018, 07:35:27 PM
To compare: Wisconsin had 39.5 in 13th place. They got 2.5 less from 2nd place Medbury than SDSU got from 2nd place Gross (bonus points), but Zeke's 4th place finish netted 8 more points than Kocer's 8th place. In addition to the Badgers' two All-Americans, here's what we got from the rest of the team (9 points from the other 7 guys).
J. Jimenez @ 125 - R24 (1 Win) - .5 Points
C. Martin @ 141 - (0 Wins) - 0 Points
A. Crone @ 149 - R12 (3 Wins) - 2 Points
TJ Ruschell @ 157 - R24 (1 Win) - .5 Points
I. Taylor @ 165 - 4th Place (4 Wins) - 13.5 Points
R. Christensen @174 - R16 (2 Wins) - 1 Point
H. Ritter @184 - R24 (1 Win) - 2.5 Points
R. Robertson @197 - R24 (1 Win) - 2.5 Points
C. Medbury @ 285 - 2nd Place (4 Wins) - 17 Points
The Badgers graduated 31 of 39.5 team points from last year's 13th place squad. I don't think they're getting to 40 this year, but I could see Evan Wick and Crone finding the podium for something like 20 points, and depending on how many bonus point wins Christensen/Robertson/Ritter are able to rack up, I expect us to be back in the Top 20 despite that much production graduating. Rutgers was 19th with 24.5 points last year.
Frankly, I'd expect a couple teams to gobble up most of the high placement and advancement points, which actually lowers the point total needed to reach the Top 20, Top 10, etc.
The days of UW finishing ahead of Rutgers will be all but over. The Rutgers program is on the upswing. Simply put they do everything better. Go to one of their duals then go to the fieldhouse for a dual and the energy level is completely different.
Quote from: Barou on January 30, 2018, 07:44:45 AM
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on January 29, 2018, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on January 29, 2018, 07:35:27 PM
To compare: Wisconsin had 39.5 in 13th place. They got 2.5 less from 2nd place Medbury than SDSU got from 2nd place Gross (bonus points), but Zeke's 4th place finish netted 8 more points than Kocer's 8th place. In addition to the Badgers' two All-Americans, here's what we got from the rest of the team (9 points from the other 7 guys).
J. Jimenez @ 125 - R24 (1 Win) - .5 Points
C. Martin @ 141 - (0 Wins) - 0 Points
A. Crone @ 149 - R12 (3 Wins) - 2 Points
TJ Ruschell @ 157 - R24 (1 Win) - .5 Points
I. Taylor @ 165 - 4th Place (4 Wins) - 13.5 Points
R. Christensen @174 - R16 (2 Wins) - 1 Point
H. Ritter @184 - R24 (1 Win) - 2.5 Points
R. Robertson @197 - R24 (1 Win) - 2.5 Points
C. Medbury @ 285 - 2nd Place (4 Wins) - 17 Points
The Badgers graduated 31 of 39.5 team points from last year's 13th place squad. I don't think they're getting to 40 this year, but I could see Evan Wick and Crone finding the podium for something like 20 points, and depending on how many bonus point wins Christensen/Robertson/Ritter are able to rack up, I expect us to be back in the Top 20 despite that much production graduating. Rutgers was 19th with 24.5 points last year.
Frankly, I'd expect a couple teams to gobble up most of the high placement and advancement points, which actually lowers the point total needed to reach the Top 20, Top 10, etc.
The days of UW finishing ahead of Rutgers will be all but over. The Rutgers program is on the upswing. Simply put they do everything better. Go to one of their duals then go to the fieldhouse for a dual and the energy level is completely different.
Highly debatable. Rutgers has over half their lineups as seniors. They will graduate Delvecchio, Ashnault, Deluca, Richie Lewis, Gravina, Messner at 197, and Gross at HWT. So they will be losing 70% of their lineup. Good luck replacing all of that.
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 30, 2018, 09:45:59 AM
Quote from: Barou on January 30, 2018, 07:44:45 AM
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on January 29, 2018, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on January 29, 2018, 07:35:27 PM
To compare: Wisconsin had 39.5 in 13th place. They got 2.5 less from 2nd place Medbury than SDSU got from 2nd place Gross (bonus points), but Zeke's 4th place finish netted 8 more points than Kocer's 8th place. In addition to the Badgers' two All-Americans, here's what we got from the rest of the team (9 points from the other 7 guys).
J. Jimenez @ 125 - R24 (1 Win) - .5 Points
C. Martin @ 141 - (0 Wins) - 0 Points
A. Crone @ 149 - R12 (3 Wins) - 2 Points
TJ Ruschell @ 157 - R24 (1 Win) - .5 Points
I. Taylor @ 165 - 4th Place (4 Wins) - 13.5 Points
R. Christensen @174 - R16 (2 Wins) - 1 Point
H. Ritter @184 - R24 (1 Win) - 2.5 Points
R. Robertson @197 - R24 (1 Win) - 2.5 Points
C. Medbury @ 285 - 2nd Place (4 Wins) - 17 Points
The Badgers graduated 31 of 39.5 team points from last year's 13th place squad. I don't think they're getting to 40 this year, but I could see Evan Wick and Crone finding the podium for something like 20 points, and depending on how many bonus point wins Christensen/Robertson/Ritter are able to rack up, I expect us to be back in the Top 20 despite that much production graduating. Rutgers was 19th with 24.5 points last year.
Frankly, I'd expect a couple teams to gobble up most of the high placement and advancement points, which actually lowers the point total needed to reach the Top 20, Top 10, etc.
The days of UW finishing ahead of Rutgers will be all but over. The Rutgers program is on the upswing. Simply put they do everything better. Go to one of their duals then go to the fieldhouse for a dual and the energy level is completely different.
Highly debatable. Rutgers has over half their lineups as seniors. They will graduate Delvecchio, Ashnault, Deluca, Richie Lewis, Gravina, Messner at 197, and Gross at HWT. So they will be losing 70% of their lineup. Good luck replacing all of that.
Rutgers has some studs redshirting this year, they will be just fine
Quote from: Ivan Stankowski on January 30, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
Quote from: wrastle63 on January 30, 2018, 09:45:59 AM
Quote from: Barou on January 30, 2018, 07:44:45 AM
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on January 29, 2018, 09:37:43 PM
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on January 29, 2018, 07:35:27 PM
To compare: Wisconsin had 39.5 in 13th place. They got 2.5 less from 2nd place Medbury than SDSU got from 2nd place Gross (bonus points), but Zeke's 4th place finish netted 8 more points than Kocer's 8th place. In addition to the Badgers' two All-Americans, here's what we got from the rest of the team (9 points from the other 7 guys).
J. Jimenez @ 125 - R24 (1 Win) - .5 Points
C. Martin @ 141 - (0 Wins) - 0 Points
A. Crone @ 149 - R12 (3 Wins) - 2 Points
TJ Ruschell @ 157 - R24 (1 Win) - .5 Points
I. Taylor @ 165 - 4th Place (4 Wins) - 13.5 Points
R. Christensen @174 - R16 (2 Wins) - 1 Point
H. Ritter @184 - R24 (1 Win) - 2.5 Points
R. Robertson @197 - R24 (1 Win) - 2.5 Points
C. Medbury @ 285 - 2nd Place (4 Wins) - 17 Points
The Badgers graduated 31 of 39.5 team points from last year's 13th place squad. I don't think they're getting to 40 this year, but I could see Evan Wick and Crone finding the podium for something like 20 points, and depending on how many bonus point wins Christensen/Robertson/Ritter are able to rack up, I expect us to be back in the Top 20 despite that much production graduating. Rutgers was 19th with 24.5 points last year.
Frankly, I'd expect a couple teams to gobble up most of the high placement and advancement points, which actually lowers the point total needed to reach the Top 20, Top 10, etc.
The days of UW finishing ahead of Rutgers will be all but over. The Rutgers program is on the upswing. Simply put they do everything better. Go to one of their duals then go to the fieldhouse for a dual and the energy level is completely different.
Highly debatable. Rutgers has over half their lineups as seniors. They will graduate Delvecchio, Ashnault, Deluca, Richie Lewis, Gravina, Messner at 197, and Gross at HWT. So they will be losing 70% of their lineup. Good luck replacing all of that.
Rutgers has some studs redshirting this year, they will be just fine
Who are these studs they have redshirting? Because if you look at their roster I don't see them.
Ashnault medical redshirt will be back next year
I think we can agree he's a stud.
So they lose 6 starters. People are worried about us losing Crone and Rocky, but they lose 6 and they're going to be in better position then us.
http://scarletknights.com/news/2017/11/15/wrestling-announces-2018-signing-class.aspx
https://www.onthebanks.com/2017/11/16/13791878/the-rankings-and-the-recruiting-for-rutgers-wrestling-are-on-the-rise
Flo wrestling has ranked the incoming 2018 RU recruits as follows:
Aguilar 9th at 120
Robinson 3rd at 138
Brenner 10th at 145
Janzer 4th at 170
Lightner 12th at 220
Glasgow is not included in these rankings but he was a top 5 ranking last year at 152. I think he was 3rd. He is doing his post grad year at St. Benedict's in Newark this year. Nice class.
Rutgers Scarlet Knights
2017-18 Recruiting
Jake Benner--Ocean Township, New Jersey (149 LBS)
Malcolm Robinson--Edison, New Jersey (133 LBS)
Billy Janzer--Delsea, New Jersey (174 LBS)
Kyle Lightner--Delaware Valley, New Jersey (197 LBS)
OK so, if RU does not have a lot coming back, then if they beat the Badgers for the next few years maybe it's because WI doesn't develop kids well?
Or, that Rutgers just has the best asst. coach.
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on January 29, 2018, 02:10:32 PM
Quote from: ChargerDad on January 29, 2018, 01:09:26 PM
I'll say this.. if my kid is lucky enough to be recruited by D1 schools in HS, UW sits behind both SDSU, NDSU, Northwestern, Central Michigan and Purdue as to places I'd encourage him to go over UW..
Hey ChargerDad,
Good for you for looking out for your child. I have the data you're looking for. Let me help you swim through it. Because a bunch of those other programs don't compete in the Big Tens, I thought we'd just look at the national championships. Is that fair?
Also, just so you know what happened, before the 2011-12 season, the Badgers lost two key assistants. They took two All-Americans with them, including a former national champion, and also cost us a couple top recruits, which had committed. We eventually recovered, but the two years that followed left the team with significant unplanned holes in the lineup, not to mention a huge coaching gap. I'm not saying that you shouldn't consider those two seasons, but certainly, I'd feel comfortable calling them an exception, rather than a rule.
For the teams you mentioned, here are their finishes in the NCAA tournament over the last graduating class (4 years). While I'd love to go all the way back to 2009, 2010, & 2011, where the Badgers had three Top 10 seasons, including a 4th place finish, the more recent data is going to be more indicative of where the programs are now (and how competitive they'd be for your son). Enjoy.
So, you are happy with the current direction of the program?? I feel that while those other programs have done more with less, we have done less with more.. Why? I think we aren't consistently getting good enough recruits, and recruits we are getting aren't living up to expectations.. We get a few impressive recruits, couple this year, couple the year after next, but we really need 3 or 4 studs a year to crack the top 5 of the B1G.. My son will likely never be recruited, but you like the kids to dream, and I hope by the time he's a Junior in HS, the Badgers have this program headed in the right direction and they are an attractive option for kids who are recruited.. Right now, I look at Wisconsin as the 9th most attractive wrestling school in the B1G, but I think with better leadership, they could been the 4-6 range.. Maybe my expectations are just too high... Maybe 2009-2011 just got our hopes too high.. Maybe 8-10 is really where the Badgers are going to be and I just need to accept that..
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on February 01, 2018, 09:31:33 AM
There are several things I do around here, that I think are important. The first is to dispel with this myth:
Quote from: ChargerDad
I feel that while those other programs have done more with less, we have done less with more.
Why is it you think the Badgers have more? I believe Wisconsin is the second worst wrestling state in the Big Ten (Nebraska), and I have a lot of evidence to support that theory. What about the program makes you think we have "more". There are certainly schools that have excelled despite not having good home grown talent, but those programs are the exception, not the rule.
The other thing I like to impose on the group is accurate representation of where Wisconsin is as a program. You said this:
Quote from: ChargerDad
Right now, I look at Wisconsin as the 9th most attractive wrestling school in the B1G
That's probably pretty close, if "attractiveness" is team success. I have a database of the last 15 years of NCAA tournament finishes. Wisconsin is one of 8 Big Ten schools with a Top 5 finish (only five have more than one), is tied with Northwestern for 8th in Top 10 finishes, and is 9th in the Big Ten in Top 20 finishes.
But, here's the thing. Using the same metrics, but opening it up to the entire universe of division 1 programs, frames it in a much more favorable light. Sure, 8 Big Ten schools have a Top 5 finish over the last 15 years, but Wisconsin is tied for 13th in the country in Top 5 finishes. They're tied for 16th in Top 10s, and they're tied for 15th in Top 20s.
The truth, ChargerDad, is that if you hadn't made the silly comment that Purdue was a more attractive school than Wisconsin, I probably would have left you alone.
Lastly, this.
Quote from: ChargerDad
So, you are happy with the current direction of the program??
I'm going to assume you think the program is on a downward trend?? Frankly, it's been remarkably consistent. If you don't like the level they're consistently at, you call it "stagnant." We're a Top 15 program in the country and at the median or one team below that in the Big Ten.
I would love to be better, and I don't want that to get lost. I would love to be better.
But, I don't believe a coaching change is enough. A lot of the things BigG says about how the university views the program ring incredibly true. It's not a priority, and frankly why should it be? It's not revenue producing. I'm at every dual. The attendance is putrid. No one cares. The state's wrestling is mediocre, at best. There's very little outside money to ... ahem ... help with the decision making of these young high school studs from out of state. It's just not realistic to wish Wisconsin be better than Iowa.
I guess my analogy is this. Everyone wants a smoking hot, supermodel wife. Then, you look in the mirror at what you're working with. Sure, you could go to the gym daily. It might take awhile, but you'd get it back. You could buy some new clothes and a haircut. More than that, you could be more personable. You could try to curb that one or two personality quirks that you know are annoying to other people. You'd have to be "on" all the time, but you could do it.
--OR--
You could spend too much time on wrestling message boards and be happy with the wife you do have.
Which option have you guys chosen?
I'll go with the option of hiring a guy like Brian Smith or Chris Bono who took over programs with WAY less than Barry and didn't lobby to everyone why they can't do something but went out and made things happen.
It's clear you like Davis and you can argue all day how basically "it's not that bad" and for the most part, you're kind of right. It's not Tom Minkel Michigan State bad by any means and with 9.9 scholarships one is bound to get lucky and land a couple good kids even with a poor track record of development because they are "that good". I guess as part of the "let's make a change" crowd we think the right leader could take an average top 17-18 finish to an average of 9-10 and have a few top 5 years. Again, expectations like Mizzou, Lehigh, NC State, Va Tech, etc. It's not like this a new leader in his 3rd year and the program is getting better. The word "stagnant" is the right way to describe the program.
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on February 01, 2018, 10:46:20 AM
Quote from: Barou
I'll go with the option of hiring a guy like Brian Smith or Chris Bono who took over programs with WAY less than Barry and didn't lobby to everyone why they can't do something but went out and made things happen.
These guys are the exception, not the rule. I'm sure Oklahoma and Iowa State fans wanted the next Brian Smith. Things haven't turned out as well for them.
Also, why would these exception-to-the-rule guys come to Wisconsin. If I was them, I wouldn't (leaving my personal allegiances to the side).
Quote from: Barou
...even with a poor track record of development...
Is there evidence of this track record? I think that, by-and-large, you get on the mat what you recruit, and that most programs are the same, as far as "wrestler development." Certainly, each program has unranked recruits that find the podium and highly ranked guys that flop. I just have never seen any evidence that one program is better or worse at it.
I'm willing to have my mind changed, but I haven't seen anything resembling evidence of this effect.
Quote from: Barou
I guess as part of the "let's make a change" crowd we think the right leader could take an average top 17-18 finish to an average of 9-10 and have a few top 5 years.
I'm game. Let's do it.
Iowa State will be a contender soon. Dresser and his staff will elevate that program. Another program that will be better than UW in a couple years.
Your wishful thinking that we can average 9-10 with Barry is unrealistic. Plenty of past results to go on. He won't do it.
Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on February 01, 2018, 11:05:16 AM
Quote from: Barou on February 01, 2018, 10:59:22 AM
Your wishful thinking that we can average 9-10 with Barry is unrealistic. Plenty of past results to go on. He won't do it.
Who said I think Barry is going to magically move up to a Top Ten program? I didn't.
Sorry I thought when you answered "let's do it" you meant that they could do it with their current leadership. My mistake.