Pre-Season Wisconsin Rankings

[MarkK]

I've really taken to how Christian Pyles over at flowrestling deals with freshmen wrestlers - they have to earn their way up the rankings.  He doesn't let hype talk, just results.  He even tempers those early results.  So for instance, even knowing what we knew about a guy like Kyle Schneider from Ohio State, I don't think flo had him in the top 10 until he had beaten quite a few ranked guys.  Your first win against a ranked guy as a freshmen doesn't necessarily leapfrog you past where that guy was ranked - you have to prove you can do it week in and week out.

It's a long season, so my thought is by late January all the freshmen will be where they belong, and that's soon enough.

that makes a lot of sense. 

[Jeff Farrell]

So is this a ranking or a Vegas odds list?  That explanation doesn't hold water!

[Jeff Farrell]

And they beat Milton last year, and Milton graduated more than them.... And they beat Rapids last year, and I can't imagine Rapids has a better freshman group coming in.   Their is nothing logical about this.  I realize this is a pre-season ranking, so I personally understand that their is little weight to put into this, but why build skepticism into the legitimacy of these by publishing this half baked ranking. 

This is exactly what caused the crossface rankings to become what they have become...... An incomplete, not well thought out product that isn't worth the paper it's written on.  Generally speaking the WIwrestling rankings are a pretty good product.  All I am saying is this attempt completely missed the mark!

[DarkKnight]

I'm sure Stoughton will be ranked #2 next time around... I see they even have case for #1, as Kaukauna lost more talent than they did.

and I believe you can rank freshmen, if you know they are that good. no need to "wait and see", this isn't college where all the talent is piled up.

[CLC FAN]

So is this a ranking or a Vegas odds list?  That explanation doesn't hold water!

The preseason odds is a "Vegas odds list."  It will be updated monthly based on new information.  The rankings were mistakenly released as an exact match of those.  Mistake.  Will be corrected the next time rankings are released I'm sure.

[ElectricGuy]

And they beat Milton last year, and Milton graduated more than them.... And they beat Rapids last year, and I can't imagine Rapids has a better freshman group coming in.   

Jeff - sTOUGHton thanks for all the love from the south!  Nathen would look good in purple! 

[LTD]

I am a big fan of the rankings and appreciate the effort that is put into this.  Even if the ranking committee didn't know all the weights I will say that it sure appears that offseason was not taken into consideration and it doesn't look like data sent to the wrestling committee was incorporated.  That's disappointing.

[Ghetto]

There have been zero matches wrestled. Half the kids haven't even body fat tested yet. I'd say maybe they shouldn't have been released at all. How can anyone have any clue where kids are going to go?

[CoachZ]

I don't understand why people are getting bent out of shape. They're rankings, they mean nothing. They're for fun at this point, to get some excitement going as the season gets underway. Same for the odds. There is a team we beat 3 times last season and they're ranked 9th and we aren't, who cares. According to this site they have better odds of winning or regional too. We'll just have to beat them again. The good teams and wrestlers will get there's.

[Jeff Farrell]

Purple.... Yuck 😄..... He may never see the mat if he was wearing purple with all those studs.

It's all good,in the end everyone i s correct, it doesn't matter... Why release anything, if it is going to be "that"!

[skibum93]

Thanks Tom we all love the drama!! We all know a lot of things will change! This ranking is for all of us that just can't wait to talk some wrestling!!!!

[ThirdTimeACharm]

I'm not quite sure what the point of these rankings are, why do them?  Why not wait, if this is what they are going to be.  

And if the logic is as described, how is Stoughton, last years 2nd place team, that lost very little to graduation, and gained a ton from their youth organization (if you truly follow Wisconsin wrestling you will know this as fact), ranked there?  Can the "ranking committee" at least explain the logic employed there?  Hudson is better than them?  Really?

Being located as far south as you are, perhaps you are not as aware of the state of wrestling in north as you think you are.  Some quick facts:

Hudson qualified 7 for State last year and returns 5
Stoughton qualified 6 for State last year and returns 4

I'm sure Stoughton has some solid JV and Middle school kids moving up.  I suspect Hudson does as well.  At the team State tournament last year, Hudson gave Kaukauna their best match losing 41-26 (with a State place winner not wrestling), compared with Stoughton who lost to Kaukauna 41-21.

As many have said, they are rankings, intended to stir conversation.  However, I don't think that conversation is as silly as you suggest...  even ElectricGuy from Stoughton would tell you that.  

[Jeff Farrell]

Your right, I know nothing.

In reality, the team rankings really aren't all that bad, I personally just don't think it's logical to have Stoughton where they are, but whatever.  Maybe it was the individual rankings being what they were, and then I opened the team rankings and puked in my mouth a little.    Maybe I'm biased to the South.

[Ty Clark]

Preseason rankings are already based on the assumption that all of these kids will wrestle again this year. Every year, there are wrestlers ranked in mid-January who didn't even go out for wrestling that season, but they stay in the rankings because they never lose, which is usually why wrestlers are removed from the rankings.

If you are trying to be objective, you must keep assumptions to a minimum and go by the last known facts. The more speculation you make (incoming freshmen, weight changes, gut feelings, etc.), the greater chance falsities will slip through the cracks due to non-information. When in doubt, leave it out.

Just because you can't prove something to be false, doesn't make it true, so you don't want to state things as fact until you have the proof to back it up. Obviously, the same goes for how not being able to prove something to be true, doesn't make necessarily make it false, which is why the medals are handed out after the state tournament is wrestled, not beforehand by a ranking committee.

Right now, all we know for "fact" is where the rankings ended last season and that seniors are no longer eligible. Once this year's results start coming in for last year's ranked wrestlers, the rankings can be adjusted based on the new facts, including which weight class those wrestlers are at now, and new wrestlers can be added when they beat returning ranked wrestlers.

As more results are compiled, other reasonable assumptions can be made based on results with common opponents, but they should be kept in check and benefit the higher ranked wrestler(s). Again, the key for this to work is to start with objective rankings.

I'm not sure if that's the method the ranking committee plans on using, but it's how I would if I were the one doing them. If you don't like the preseason rankings, think of them as an "honor roll" of last year's wrestlers who have eligibility remaining, whereas the disagreement is really over semantics in the title.

[DocWrestling]

Just another shortcoming with wrestling and promoting itself.  In almost every other sport the coaches submit stats, rosters,, results, etc to a central database which is usually another website that does not cover wrestling but covers most other sports.  They don't cover wrestling because of this web site and because of trackwrestling yet a low percentage of teams submit their info to these sites.

Wouldn't it be awesome if...
1) A website had every result and they were accurate.  Coaches could make this happen with trackwrestling by posting and verifying data
2) A website that had updated records on every wrestler- for every wrestler, JV and Varsity records.
3) Coaches submitted their projected lineup with weights and who they thought should be ranked on their team and why?  Does not sound like this happens very often to this website
4) Coaches recommended other wrestlers they have seen that should be ranked-  Does this happen?

My point is that everything on this site or trackwrestling seems to be parent driven or is simply posted because tournaments use trackwrestling rather than coach driven.   I have often looked for info on someone that I have never heard of an often it is difficult to find anything.

I realize coaches have a lot on their plate but it should be real easy to appoint someone to handle these duties, etc.