Making a Murderer---Steven Avery--Netflix

[neutral]

I'd imagine it would be pretty hard living with a family member in prison ... that it appears did not receive a fair trial.

At the very least - there is more than reasonable doubt.

At the most - there is a guilty party or parties still out there.   I believe that/those to be Brendan's older brother &/or step-father.

If Avery is innocent - he should not be required to stay in prison so that the family doesn't have to relive the events.

While Halbach's family is obviously satisfied that justice is being served - I'm pretty sure that if they found out Avery is innocent ... that they would say, "That's okay ... we've got Steven Avery doing time for it".  I hope another tragedy does not result from this possible?/likely? miscarriage of justice.

[bigoil]

Ram,

There was one attacker in the 1985 case, the DNA was of a convicted rapist who also told police he did it (who in turn told the Manitowoc police, the officer that took the call and his boss were the two searching when the key was found, even though Mant county police weren't involved per Kratz in his first press conf).

[ramjet]

I'd imagine it would be pretty hard living with a family member in prison ... that it appears did not receive a fair trial.

At the very least - there is more than reasonable doubt.

At the most - there is a guilty party or parties still out there.   I believe that/those to be Brendan's older brother &/or step-father.

If Avery is innocent - he should not be required to stay in prison so that the family doesn't have to relive the events.


While Halbach's family is obviously satisfied that justice is being served - I'm pretty sure that if they found out Avery is innocent ... that they would say, "That's okay ... we've got Steven Avery doing time for it".  I hope another tragedy does not result from this possible?/likely? miscarriage of justice.

So all the cops every single one of them has knowledge of this and is purposely staying silent because?

They want murderers free to harm more people?
Every single law enforcement person including assistant DA Lawers, federal investigators , State investigators ALL knowingly would rather have murders out on the street so they can keep Avery in prison?

I find it very hard to comprehend. That's allot of people lying and conspiring no weak links in that chain?

As far as what the victims family thinks? I have not talked with the, so I have no idea how they feel but I do have tremendous sorrow for thier situation.

I also feel thus movie leaves out details that shows ALL sides.

[ramjet]

Ram,

There was one attacker in the 1985 case, the DNA was of a convicted rapist who also told police he did it (who in turn told the Manitowoc police, the officer that took the call and his boss were the two searching when the key was found, even though Mant county police weren't involved per Kratz in his first press conf).

Ok

[H. Hogan]

A little more info.

http://www.ranker.com/list/making-a-murderer-missing-evidence/candice-darden?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=making_a_murderer_evidence

[littleguy301]

Ram,

There was one attacker in the 1985 case, the DNA was of a convicted rapist who also told police he did it (who in turn told the Manitowoc police, the officer that took the call and his boss were the two searching when the key was found, even though Mant county police weren't involved per Kratz in his first press conf).

I found that really interesting.

that cop files a police report the day after (8 years latter) Avery gets out. Then in turn the 2 that were involved in the finding of the car and the keys were NOT to be there according to the DA but latter admitted it. Strange but true.

[DrSnide]

I know a bit of inside info on the case from a prior life  before the documentary and will just say its not very balanced.  Not to say the investigation was perfect but the reality is most are not (although probably not as sloppy as this one generally).  I think people are too used to the "clean" cases they see on tv and are suprised when they don't occur in real life.  Lets just say there are reasons that numerous appeals have been shot down by the appeals courts- unless you want to think that appel court judges are "in on it" also.  

As far as the Innocence Project - they do some good work but they can be misguided at times.  I have consulted on two cases they appealed and I felt in both cases they were defending some pretty horrible people who were clearly guilty but they found what they thought was a valid technicallity and (unsucessfully) aggressiely pursed it.  They even acknowldeged in one case the guy was guilty of the crime but felt the psych testing situation was inappropriate despite it following standard practices.  They lost but it was a pain in my backside let me tell ya.

[jaguarwrestler]

I watched the 4 hours of Dassey interview.... he changed his story about 10 times and the times he gave don't match up with other eye witnesses. Every time they asked him to tell the truth it seems like a new truth comes out. Seems like he doesn't know the difference between fantasy and reality. He said she was clothed in the back of her "jeep" and her shirt went from blue to white to black... I mean it is all just a bunch of garbage. If Avery did this, it was not the way the prosecutor tried to sell and they sold the story of a kid that didn't have a clue.

You could see he was making it up as he went. His first version if that he saw Teresa outside talking to Steven when he got off the bus... the bus driver backed up that same story in court... the people going after him for 4 hours didn't like that version of the story and told him he was lying and that it didn't match up with their time line. So he made up a new version... he had 4 or 5

The prosecutor used this kid as their evidence... a kid without a clue that was basically tricked into making up lies to please the investigators.

[bigoil]

On a much, much smaller injustice, and does have me question ethics:

I was pulled over for speeding by a brown county officer coming at me. He comes up to the window and immediately tells me I was going 60 but he's going to knock it down to 50 (in a 35). I have been pulled over a few times and generally would say I'm a speeder. I was not going 60 nor 50 as there was a car in front of me.

So he comes back with the ticket and I ask to see the radar, have never done that before but was certain I wasn't going anywhere near that speed.

Officer says "no, I don't have to allow you to see it". I was surprised, got home and looked that up and sure enough they don't.

I go to court to fight and meet with the ADA, get the points knocked down and in our conversation I bring up that he wouldn't show me the radar. The ADA goes no, right here in his report he says he offered to show you and you declined. Flat out lie. It is his word vs mine and you can't win that. I know many police and believe that isn't what I'd expect.

Back to Avery, I do believe that police could plant blood, move the vehicle but I'm not sure about how the bones get on site, I don't see police planting that evidence, assuming the bones were Halbachs (not sure I have heard that yet).

[neutral]

Back to Avery, I do believe that police could plant blood, move the vehicle but I'm not sure about how the bones get on site, I don't see police planting that evidence, assuming the bones were Halbachs (not sure I have heard that yet).

Again - I believe it was Branden's older brother &/or step-father ... who were hunting (and were each other's alibis) - and that they burned the body somewhere else ... and dumped the bones in Avery's fire pit (probably that night).

I don't believe the police were intending to frame an innocent man.  I do believe they added evidence to improve the chances of conviction of a person they felt confident was guilty ... and who they wanted off the streets.  They were tunnel visioned about the rape case in 1985 ... and again in the murder case.

[littleguy301]

On a much, much smaller injustice, and does have me question ethics:

I was pulled over for speeding by a brown county officer coming at me. He comes up to the window and immediately tells me I was going 60 but he's going to knock it down to 50 (in a 35). I have been pulled over a few times and generally would say I'm a speeder. I was not going 60 nor 50 as there was a car in front of me.

So he comes back with the ticket and I ask to see the radar, have never done that before but was certain I wasn't going anywhere near that speed.

Officer says "no, I don't have to allow you to see it". I was surprised, got home and looked that up and sure enough they don't.

I go to court to fight and meet with the ADA, get the points knocked down and in our conversation I bring up that he wouldn't show me the radar. The ADA goes no, right here in his report he says he offered to show you and you declined. Flat out lie. It is his word vs mine and you can't win that. I know many police and believe that isn't what I'd expect.

Back to Avery, I do believe that police could plant blood, move the vehicle but I'm not sure about how the bones get on site, I don't see police planting that evidence, assuming the bones were Halbachs (not sure I have heard that yet).

Well howavi, I get what your saying in the speeding case. I was on trial some time back after a bad choice and it was my word against the officer that pulled me over. After we pleaded the case the judge bought my side of the one mans word against another. Though that officer had screwed up some other things as well.

Bottom line I still was found guilty but to a much lesser offense than I was charged with.

No one is perfect to say the least. I k now I am not and I certainly would mess something up also.

It is just this case seems to be a mess and the waters are mudded to say the least.

[bkraus]

After listening to the chatter about this documentary I started watching it Friday night.  Big mistake was I got hooked and ended up watching straight through to Saturday morning.  I could beat a dead horse and regurgitate a lot of what people were saying here.  I would love to hear more on the prosecution side, because what was shown on the documentary wreaked of "reasonable doubt".  There was way to much what if's and the like to not have a conviction.  I am going to try and read more on it, and then I will form my opinion.  Because if I based it purely on the documentary, then my opinion would be no, he didn't do it.  But that would be a misinformed decision.  

A couple things that were not brought up that really bothered me during the viewing mostly based off of the Dassey case.  That kid got F'd with capital letters.  He was interviewed multiple times without an attorney present.  Yes he was read his Miranda rights, but there is no way that kid could have understood that.  And this didn't happen just once, happened multiple times.  But the biggest part that bothered me was the waste of space of a defense attorney that he originally had, Len Kachinsky.  You are a defense attorney, and your personal opinion on the innocence or guilt of your client should not impede the ethical conduct you should have to give your client the best defense possible.  It was never more evident than when he had his own investigator basically force a statement with drawings out of Dassey and then have him get interrogated again the day after the fact.  The investigators and Kachinsky played that poor kid like a fiddle.    

[jaguarwrestler]

the kid was asked to draw pictures and then label the drawing, he had to ask how to spell garage and gun rack... the cops should have known he was not capable of giving an interview like that

he claimed they shot he 10 times in the garage with the garage door open and half her car sticking out, then picked her up and carried her to the pit and tossed her on the fire.... during the daylight... on a property where 4 families lived... when they had plans to have people over for a bonfire.... and no one saw anything... give me a break... he also claim he cut her throat and there was a lot of blood that soaked the sheets and mattress... they have his pants, shoes and jacket he was wearing and no blood was found... also no blood in house or garage... give me a break this kid is totally making it up. He told them his version, they said they didn't believe he so he told 4 or 5 more versions until they heard what they wanted to hear. The bus driver backs up the kids story and the investigators said he was lying. Oh and he claimed she was shot with a single shot rifle... 10 times... so shoot, reload 9 more times and shot 9 more times... but it wasn't a single shot rifle.

The bus driver says when she dropped Brendan at 3:45 she saw Teresa... Dassey's brother claims he saw her at the property at 2:30... now to take a couple snap shots of a car for Auto Trader can't take more than 5-10 minutes, how in the heck is she seen there for over an hour? Also if we follow the time line Dassey gave he says she was dead by about 5:15... Jodi (Avery girlfriend) called at around 4:45 that day... Dassey said she was dead already when she called... yet another time line that doesn't add up.

[ramjet]

I wish I would have "pulled a Ram", and refused to watch it. It disturbed me. Arguing with good folks like crossface and the Ram. Over a scumbag like Avery.

We are not arguing we are discussing it.........

[jaguarwrestler]

I said something earlier about him being framed or set up on the first charge... and I was asked what I meant

An officer with MPD pointed the finger at Avery

An officer from MPD said the chief investigator drew the composite sketch from an older photo of Steven to show to the victim... in this photo his hair was off his forehead and curly/narly... he was brought in that same day with straight hair completely around his head and down to his eyes so the composite looked nothing like his current look.

Victim said he had brown eyes, said she swore to herself she would remember what he looked like. He has blue eyes.

They put together a lineup... she claimed the man was about 5 foot 7... Avery is small, I would guess 5-5. All others in the line up where 3-6 inches taller and he was the only one with blonde hair. So she picked out the only guy that fit her original description.

The guy that drew his sketch framed it and hung it in his office... strange.

That same guy doesn't believe the DNA evidence that got Avery off... as well as other officers don't believe it.

He had an alibi, with time stamped receipts, he had dozens of people claim they saw him or where working side by side with him that during the time of the crime.

They didn't give him access to a phone, they didn't give him his rights

The city inspector and DA's assistance said they had the wrong guy

The DA had a file of the actual rapist in the Avery file... so they knew it was probably someone else.

They said the sheriff was much more involved with the case than the norm, also no investigation beyond Avery as they claim they where going to make the case work with him as their suspect.