Sawyer Massie over Fritz Schierl 11-3 at D1 Sect A
Looks like Ramsey Bloy of Freedom will wrestle August Peplinski of Wittenberg Birnamwood at 195
Nevermind Freedom forfeited the rest of their matches after sealing the victory
Quote from: Orca on February 17, 2015, 09:38:30 PM
Nevermind Freedom forfeited the rest of their matches after sealing the victory
Bummer. Can't blame them though.
I just gone done telling people in Maryland that we don't do that in WI! oooops
Quote from: Orca on February 17, 2015, 09:38:30 PM
Nevermind Freedom forfeited the rest of their matches after sealing the victory
I am told that in Minnesota high school tournament series if you forfeit a weight class during the 'series' (dual meet sectionals and state) you can not use that weight class again during the series. So in this case, Rice Lake would only be able to wrestle four weight classes at dual meet state tournament.
Anyone have the 'rule' on that from Minnesota?
I would be 100% in favor of this. I drove to over an hour to Verona last night for a Sectional Dual CHAMPIONSHIP and if one or the other team had forfeited matches I would have been none to happy as a wrestling fan and customer.
I agree. I think that is total garbage not to give the kids the chance to wrestle another match and to give the fans the chance to see the match. Worrying about injuries in wrestling is just chicken s--t!
Quote from: TomM on February 18, 2015, 11:15:32 AM
I am told that in Minnesota high school tournament series if you forfeit a weight class during the 'series' (dual meet sectionals and state) you can not use that weight class again during the series. So in this case, Rice Lake would only be able to wrestle four weight classes at dual meet state tournament.
Anyone have the 'rule' on that from Minnesota?
I would be 100% in favor of this. I drove to over an hour to Verona last night for a Sectional Dual CHAMPIONSHIP and if one or the other team had forfeited matches I would have been none to happy as a wrestling fan and customer.
Bad Form Freedom, Bad Form! ::)
I guess it's a free country though? ???
Quote from: TomM on February 18, 2015, 11:15:32 AM
I am told that in Minnesota high school tournament series if you forfeit a weight class during the 'series' (dual meet sectionals and state) you can not use that weight class again during the series. So in this case, Rice Lake would only be able to wrestle four weight classes at dual meet state tournament.
Anyone have the 'rule' on that from Minnesota?
I would be 100% in favor of this. I drove to over an hour to Verona last night for a Sectional Dual CHAMPIONSHIP and if one or the other team had forfeited matches I would have been none to happy as a wrestling fan and customer.
MNbadger would know the answer to this question.
Quote from: stbird on February 18, 2015, 11:21:46 AM
I agree. I think that is total garbage not to give the kids the chance to wrestle another match and to give the fans the chance to see the match. Worrying about injuries in wrestling is just chicken s--t!
Quote from: TomM on February 18, 2015, 11:15:32 AM
I am told that in Minnesota high school tournament series if you forfeit a weight class during the 'series' (dual meet sectionals and state) you can not use that weight class again during the series. So in this case, Rice Lake would only be able to wrestle four weight classes at dual meet state tournament.
Anyone have the 'rule' on that from Minnesota?
I would be 100% in favor of this. I drove to over an hour to Verona last night for a Sectional Dual CHAMPIONSHIP and if one or the other team had forfeited matches I would have been none to happy as a wrestling fan and customer.
[/
Really? A high school kid works his butt off his whole high school career to have a shot of making the podium and your mad because the coaches don't wrestle them in a dual meet that already decided......it's not about your entertainment.....it's about putting young adults in the best situation to be successful .
just curious , how many matches did freedom happen to forfeit?... I'm also wondering of those matches that were forfeited, was it because the wrestlers might meet again this weekend...thanks if anyone knows...
Quote from: aarons23 on February 18, 2015, 11:54:20 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 18, 2015, 11:21:46 AM
I agree. I think that is total garbage not to give the kids the chance to wrestle another match and to give the fans the chance to see the match. Worrying about injuries in wrestling is just chicken s--t!
Quote from: TomM on February 18, 2015, 11:15:32 AM
I am told that in Minnesota high school tournament series if you forfeit a weight class during the 'series' (dual meet sectionals and state) you can not use that weight class again during the series. So in this case, Rice Lake would only be able to wrestle four weight classes at dual meet state tournament.
Anyone have the 'rule' on that from Minnesota?
I would be 100% in favor of this. I drove to over an hour to Verona last night for a Sectional Dual CHAMPIONSHIP and if one or the other team had forfeited matches I would have been none to happy as a wrestling fan and customer.
[/
Really? A high school kid works his butt off his whole high school career to have a shot of making the podium and your mad because the coaches don't wrestle them in a dual meet that already decided......it's not about your entertainment.....it's about putting young adults in the best situation to be successful .
I agree Aaron in that scenario I have no problem with what they did. Of course I'm there to see all the matches I can. I can see forfeits nearly every Thursday night of the year. Don't like seeing them during the big events though. But on this, I don't have an issue with it.
Maggie it was three. But it didn't matter one or more it was for the continuation and in the best interest of the kids who are there.
I agree with the Freedom Coaches; Aarons...agreeing with Freedom I might have suspected, but agreeing with Aarons is entirely unexpected.
If you want to watch meaningless bouts, google something, or just watch any political-entertainment station, or Beverly Hills Housewives...
Probably the same people complaining about this that would complain if somebody got hurt and couldn't continue in the State Tournament series after injury in a meaningless bout.
My heavens, you want your new rope and you want to eat it too...
Quote from: Dale Einerson on February 18, 2015, 12:21:15 PM
I agree with the Freedom Coaches; Aarons...agreeing with Freedom I might have suspected, but agreeing with Aarons is entirely unexpected.
If you want to watch meaningless bouts, google something, or just watch any political-entertainment station, or Beverly Hills Housewives...
Probably the same people complaining about this that would complain if somebody got hurt and couldn't continue in the State Tournament series after injury in a meaningless bout.
My heavens, you want your new rope and you want to eat it too...
At least your showing progress. ;D
I saw that Jordan Myers injury defaulted in the Sparta match. Hope he is ok for saturday.
There was an inj default in the Hudson St. Point match last night too! Not sure where I sit on forfeiting matches!
To clarify on J Meyer.
Hes fine, he got DQed cause he slammed Brett Von Ruden... Now Von Ruden on the other hand may have to miss sectionals because of it but that's undetermined though.
Not the same philosophy at all...just a huge stretch.
To a key point, the Freedom wrestlers that forfeited had qualified for individual sectionals. Your example misses this difference.
Ramsey Bloy (#4 195) and August Peplinski (#1 195) have a great chance of meeting up on Saturday. I would have loved to see that match up Tuesday night; however, there was no point in risking anyone's health for Freedom. They will need a full line up to beat Sparta at team state. Why risk the chance for the kids to do something special as a team for the benefit of the spectators. I am sure there were still plenty of happy fans in that gym despite not having the last three matches. Same thing goes for the Wittenberg wrestlers. I am sure they would be pretty upset if something happened to them right before sectionals in a match that wouldn't help their team advance.
Quote from: shift on February 18, 2015, 12:38:41 PM
To clarify on J Meyer.
Hes fine, he got DQed cause he slammed Brett Von Ruden... Now Von Ruden on the other hand may have to miss sectionals because of it but that's undetermined though.
Thanks for the clarification. When I checked on Track, it said injury. I hope Von Ruden can wrestle saturday.
Quote from: Dale Einerson on February 18, 2015, 12:21:15 PM
I agree with the Freedom Coaches; Aarons...agreeing with Freedom I might have suspected, but agreeing with Aarons is entirely unexpected.
If you want to watch meaningless bouts, google something, or just watch any political-entertainment station, or Beverly Hills Housewives...
Probably the same people complaining about this that would complain if somebody got hurt and couldn't continue in the State Tournament series after injury in a meaningless bout.
My heavens, you want your new rope and you want to eat it too...
I am going to nominate you for the
Mixed Metaphor of the Year Award. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Orca on February 18, 2015, 12:52:51 PM
Ramsey Bloy (#4 195) and August Peplinski (#1 195) have a great chance of meeting up on Saturday. I would have loved to see that match up Tuesday night; however, there was no point in risking anyone's health for Freedom. They will need a full line up to beat Sparta at team state. Why risk the chance for the kids to do something special as a team for the benefit of the spectators. I am sure there were still plenty of happy fans in that gym despite not having the last three matches. Same thing goes for the Wittenberg wrestlers. I am sure they would be pretty upset if something happened to them right before sectionals in a match that wouldn't help their team advance.
I think it is quite common at team sectionals for a team to forfeit the rest of the matches after a win is locked up. It happens all the time.
Justin Folley (Tosa) over Josh Hickey (Cedarburg) 9-6. I wish I could have seen that one last night.
There were tons of good matches in the Milton v. Stoughton dual, and a few in the Whitnall v. Pewaukee dual.
I too am surprised, but I have to agree with aarons23. These kids that have worked so hard all year to advance towards the State Tournament need not wrestle a incidental match because of fan pressure. There is no reason to risk injury, and yes these injuries do happen. Are we that selfish?
Can't believe I agreed with aarons23.
Quote from: maggie on February 18, 2015, 12:06:55 PM
just curious , how many matches did freedom happen to forfeit?... I'm also wondering of those matches that were forfeited, was it because the wrestlers might meet again this weekend...thanks if anyone knows...
They forfeited 3...they were major underdogs in all three though.
Quote from: Street Glide on February 18, 2015, 01:48:35 PM
I too am surprised, but I have to agree with aarons23. These kids that have worked so hard all year to advance towards the State Tournament need not wrestle a incidental match because of fan pressure. There is no reason to risk injury, and yes these injuries do happen. Are we that selfish?
Can't believe I agreed with aarons23.
That had to be hard for you to say..... :o
a Milestone... :)
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: maggie on February 18, 2015, 12:06:55 PM
just curious , how many matches did freedom happen to forfeit?... I'm also wondering of those matches that were forfeited, was it because the wrestlers might meet again this weekend...thanks if anyone knows...
They forfeited 3...they were major underdogs in all three though.
Bloy was a major underdog against Peplinski?
VanGrinsven was a major underdog against Kreger?
I will agree with you at 170, but that statement is a bit reaching sir.
Quote from: imnofish on February 18, 2015, 01:32:23 PM
Quote from: Dale Einerson on February 18, 2015, 12:21:15 PM
I agree with the Freedom Coaches; Aarons...agreeing with Freedom I might have suspected, but agreeing with Aarons is entirely unexpected.
If you want to watch meaningless bouts, google something, or just watch any political-entertainment station, or Beverly Hills Housewives...
Probably the same people complaining about this that would complain if somebody got hurt and couldn't continue in the State Tournament series after injury in a meaningless bout.
My heavens, you want your new rope and you want to eat it too...
I am going to nominate you for the Mixed Metaphor of the Year Award. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thank you!
I just thought we should nip the smelly rat in the bud.
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: maggie on February 18, 2015, 12:06:55 PM
just curious , how many matches did freedom happen to forfeit?... I'm also wondering of those matches that were forfeited, was it because the wrestlers might meet again this weekend...thanks if anyone knows...
They forfeited 3...they were major underdogs in all three though.
how is Bloy a Major underdog???
Amery did the same thing against Ellsworth with the last three. Marko and Conner were two of them which were obviously favored.
I have seen both Bloy and Peplinski wrestle more than once this year and although Bloy's unorthodox style might confuse and or antagonize Peplinski for a short time I believe Peplinski would eventually get mad of having his head hung on and turn it on in the 3rd period and win convincingly. Yes Freedom big underdog at 170 as well. JMO and not from WB either.
Quote from: Vinsanity 4 on February 18, 2015, 03:52:41 PM
I have seen both Bloy and Peplinski wrestle more than once this year and although Bloy's unorthodox style might confuse and or antagonize Peplinski for a short time I believe Peplinski would eventually get mad of having his head hung on and turn it on in the 3rd period and win convincingly. Yes Freedom big underdog at 170 as well. JMO and not from WB either.
Bloy to me has no confusion at all. Simpley hangs onto the the back of the head to try wear out kids. Think I've watched him 5-6 times and yet to see a shot. My guess Peplinksi will have none of it. Will be fun to see
Sorry Glide confused was a bad choice of words there. Can't write what I really wanted to say on a public forum but let's just say I agree with you and I believe Peplinski will have none of it either. I also have yet to see Bloy take a shot in his matches but I am sure his technique of head and neck hanging have baffled a good portion of his opponents this year.
Quote from: Orca on February 18, 2015, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: maggie on February 18, 2015, 12:06:55 PM
just curious , how many matches did freedom happen to forfeit?... I'm also wondering of those matches that were forfeited, was it because the wrestlers might meet again this weekend...thanks if anyone knows...
They forfeited 3...they were major underdogs in all three though.
Bloy was a major underdog against Peplinski?
VanGrinsven was a major underdog against Kreger?
I will agree with you at 170, but that statement is a bit reaching sir.
JV vs. Kreger at 170
VanGrinsven vs. Peplinski at 182
Bloy vs. Peplinski 195
Yes...3 major underdogs.
While some may speculate that because of rankings Bloy and Peplinski are dead even I do not see that as the case....to me Bloy is wrestling a weight up from where he should be...but I guess they will see on Saturday.
It's highly difficult to take Peplinski down...same goes with getting away from him...and pretty much not going to ride him out. It will be a different animal for Bloy...I guess see how that style works out....that style didn't work that great at 220 and 285 for them and is hard to watch at times.
Any chance this thread can circle back to the original question of some big matches that actually DID happen? ::)
Who cares about the matches that did not happen......
Yauch vs. Walrath was a very good match. Yauch is huge at the weight.
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 06:05:11 PM
Yauch vs. Walrath was a very good match. Yauch is huge at the weight.
So I don't have to go to Track, who won?
Quote from: Paul Harvey on February 18, 2015, 06:09:14 PM
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 06:05:11 PM
Yauch vs. Walrath was a very good match. Yauch is huge at the weight.
So I don't have to go to Track, who won?
Very even match but a very nice 4 point move by Walrath gave him the victory.
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 06:15:23 PM
Quote from: Paul Harvey on February 18, 2015, 06:09:14 PM
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 06:05:11 PM
Yauch vs. Walrath was a very good match. Yauch is huge at the weight.
So I don't have to go to Track, who won?
Very even match but a very nice 4 point move by Walrath gave him the victory.
Which Yauch, and at what weight?
Quote from: wrestle84 on February 18, 2015, 06:19:37 PM
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 06:15:23 PM
Quote from: Paul Harvey on February 18, 2015, 06:09:14 PM
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 06:05:11 PM
Yauch vs. Walrath was a very good match. Yauch is huge at the weight.
So I don't have to go to Track, who won?
Very even match but a very nice 4 point move by Walrath gave him the victory.
Which Yauch, and at what weight?
Cody, the younger Yauch. At 132, Chris is on a mission yet again this year at 38
Quote from: Street Glide on February 18, 2015, 04:05:50 PM
Quote from: Vinsanity 4 on February 18, 2015, 03:52:41 PM
I have seen both Bloy and Peplinski wrestle more than once this year and although Bloy's unorthodox style might confuse and or antagonize Peplinski for a short time I believe Peplinski would eventually get mad of having his head hung on and turn it on in the 3rd period and win convincingly. Yes Freedom big underdog at 170 as well. JMO and not from WB either.
Bloy to me has no confusion at all. Simpley hangs onto the the back of the head to try wear out kids. Think I've watched him 5-6 times and yet to see a shot. My guess Peplinksi will have none of it. Will be fun to see
You're right. Exciting time of the year. Should be fun to see how Saturday goes for everyone.
I don't buy the "he might get injured" statement. If everyone is so afraid of kids getting hurt before sectionals why do we have a team state? These are high school kids let them wrestle. Theses kids have wrestled 40 or 50 matches already this year. Com on man! Everyone talks about the numbers in wrestling dwindling, well start filling the stands with a great product and more kids will want to be part of it.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 07:30:24 AM
I don't buy the "he might get injured" statement. If everyone is so afraid of kids getting hurt before sectionals why do we have a team state? These are high school kids let them wrestle. Theses kids have wrestled 40 or 50 matches already this year. Com on man! Everyone talks about the numbers in wrestling dwindling, well start filling the stands with a great product and more kids will want to be part of it.
So by this standard every football team, basketball team etc....should keep their best players in through out the game.....just meet your entertainment expectations. It's high school sports....coaches has no responsibility to you or the spectators....just to put his athletes in the best situation to be successful.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 19, 2015, 07:56:43 AM
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 07:30:24 AM
I don't buy the "he might get injured" statement. If everyone is so afraid of kids getting hurt before sectionals why do we have a team state? These are high school kids let them wrestle. Theses kids have wrestled 40 or 50 matches already this year. Com on man! Everyone talks about the numbers in wrestling dwindling, well start filling the stands with a great product and more kids will want to be part of it.
So by this standard every football team, basketball team etc....should keep their best players in through out the game.....just meet your entertainment expectations. It's high school sports....coaches has no responsibility to you or the spectators....just to put his athletes in the best situation to be successful.
Football and basketball have other players that come in if a game gets out of hand, they don't just forfeit and go home. Some schools have JV or Varsity reserve wrestlers to wrestle in place of a "starter", some don't. I don't necessarily blame a coach for not wrestling the matches, there may be injuries a wrestler needs to heal from or the fear of a potential injury. BUT, in no other sport do you see this happen. From a fan's perspective it is a valid complaint. Fans came to see a sectional team state dual meet...Forfeiting your way to win is odd to all but the wrestling community.
So if your comparison is correct, I guess the rule should be changed so a football or basketball team could forfeit the 4th quarter if they wanted and still get the win. We wrestled a dual meet this year and lost 60 to 6. Our 6 was the last match of the night. Why didn't the other team or even us for that mater just throw in the towel after the match was decided so no one would get hurt? They don't do it in college! If it is a match that will happen on Saturday I would think both wrestlers would want to get a feel for the other guy. Coaches could get video etc. Wrestle him see where your at, what he does, where you need work etc. I will say it again, you want to improve the numbers in wrestling... fill the stands!
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:41:53 AM
So if your comparison is correct, I guess the rule should be changed so a football or basketball team could forfeit the 4th quarter if they wanted and still get the win. We wrestled a dual meet this year and lost 60 to 6. Our 6 was the last match of the night. Why didn't the other team or even us for that mater just throw in the towel after the match was decided so no one would get hurt? They don't do it in college! If it is a match that will happen on Saturday I would think both wrestlers would want to get a feel for the other guy. Coaches could get video etc. Wrestle him see where your at, what he does, where you need work etc. I will say it again, you want to improve the numbers in wrestling... fill the stands!
All of those are valid concerns for a spectators...but not a priority for the coaches....his priorities are for his own wrestlers.
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:41:53 AM
So if your comparison is correct, I guess the rule should be changed so a football or basketball team could forfeit the 4th quarter if they wanted and still get the win. We wrestled a dual meet this year and lost 60 to 6. Our 6 was the last match of the night. Why didn't the other team or even us for that mater just throw in the towel after the match was decided so no one would get hurt? They don't do it in college! If it is a match that will happen on Saturday I would think both wrestlers would want to get a feel for the other guy. Coaches could get video etc. Wrestle him see where your at, what he does, where you need work etc. I will say it again, you want to improve the numbers in wrestling... fill the stands!
Good effort with the false argument. Gotta admire made up situations, from other sports, in an attempt to push home your argument. In the case of wrestling it can become mathematically impossible for the losing team to win, in football or basketball it may be unlikely, but not impossible.
May I remind you, basketball, football, baseball teams and other sports often put second stringers in when games are out of reach. This becomes increasingly common at the professional levels when the playoffs are made and seeds are already determined. So, no rule change needed to rest up starters and save them from injuries in meaningless matches.
If you want to improve numbers in wrestling, you need more wrestlers. I will take my own stab at a false argument...if Kaukauna really cared about having a top 1 team into infinity, then, they would want to win a dual by no more than 3 points, not settled until the final match, so they fill the stands with meets that fans can get really excited about. Kaukauna might need to sub in a couple of JV kids at certain weights to keep it close, but, it is what the fans want and it is good for the sport. Criminy, we seem to want team seeding so only the very best meet in the finals but we want Team Sectionals to be close...tell me how that works.
On the topic of "I would think both wrestlers would want to get a feel for the other guy..." I would think so, I would hope so, but, it isn't always the case and I seriously doubt it is the case more than 50% of the time. You have to admire Breske who goes down to 170, where his toughest match of the year thus fair may be waiting for him. You have to admire Schlough who cut down for Cheesehead to go up against Lee... But, I suggest they are in the minority. True warriors.
I do wonder why Freedom, in this case; Coleman, in prior years, wouldn't just wrestle some JV kids in the weights they forfeited after the dual is baked. Would be along the lines of what we see in other sports and would give some kids some very unique exposure and experience without a whole lot of pressure other than the large and boisterous fan base. Then again, I am but a recovering basketball player...
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
In the case where a Sectional qualifier gets injuried in a meaningless match in Team Sectionals. It happens...
Notice it doesn't happen in Regionals where individual and team scores matter? The difference in Team Sectionals is that once the win is secured, the individual scores don't matter.
Notice that in the regional that had Bayport and Pulaski and the team score was separated by about 3 points, there were no forfeits from either team? This only happens when a score for an individual is irrelevant. We are talking about irrelevancy.
I do agree with your true warrior statement. I also sadly must say I agree they are becoming the minority. Am I the only one who believes this is the main problem with declining numbers in our great sport?
I don't agree with you. I stated my reasons on another thread.
If you said fans that drove a long time and committed the time to watch matchups they hoped to see; didn't happen, might be less likely to drive and commit the time again, then I would agree with you.
Butts in seats is different than wrestlers on the mat, in my opinion.
Dale I totally disagree. Watch any interview on the big screen at the state tournament and every wrestler will say "all the people" every time. I stood on a stage for many years in front of thousands of people. That my friend is what drives you. The big show buddy! If the state championships weren't about the rush of all the fans they would wrestle it in some wrestling room. Buts in the stands is most certainly the driving force to put wrestlers on the mat.
Instead of talking about what didnt, what would of happened howabout that Freedom vs Two Rivers duel which was actually wrestled and was a great duel and great comeback win both teams wrestled tough and left it all out there
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 07:30:24 AM
I don't buy the "he might get injured" statement. If everyone is so afraid of kids getting hurt before sectionals why do we have a team state? These are high school kids let them wrestle. Theses kids have wrestled 40 or 50 matches already this year. Com on man! Everyone talks about the numbers in wrestling dwindling, well start filling the stands with a great product and more kids will want to be part of it.
Whether you want to buy it or not IT HAPPENS! No I don't agree with a Tuesday team sectional a few days before individual sectionals buts that a whole different thread. Then these comparisons with other sports, that really where a "come on man" is needed.
This simple, when the losing team is mathematically unable to win , it is the coaches decision, not the fans in the stands. What would these so called fans say if the last few matches were to involve some non ranked wrestles with not as much marquee value? Aren't there matches just as important to friends and family.
I'm from South Dakota originally and we never had a team state. They just kept team points like they do here at Regionals to determine the team state champs!
Quote from: KeyLock on February 19, 2015, 12:15:31 PM
Instead of talking about what didnt, what would of happened howabout that Freedom vs Two Rivers duel which was actually wrestled and was a great duel and great comeback win both teams wrestled tough and left it all out there
+1
Quote from: handsandtoes on February 19, 2015, 11:51:44 AM
Dale I totally disagree. Watch any interview on the big screen at the state tournament and every wrestler will say "all the people" every time. I stood on a stage for many years in front of thousands of people. That my friend is what drives you. The big show buddy! If the state championships weren't about the rush of all the fans they would wrestle it in some wrestling room. Buts in the stands is most certainly the driving force to put wrestlers on the mat.
Individual state is the best attended high school championship in the state of Wisconsin, this much is undeniably true. Beyond the wrestling purists, just about every school in the state is represented, so, in some ways we should expect better attendance than a 2 team basketball or football or soccer or baseball game.
But, I have never witnessed a wrestler say in the Kohl Center interview, "I think it is awesome how so many people showed up to watch us at Team Sectionals." The kids are talking about state; support over their young life, including wrestling. Get hurt at Team Sectionals in an irrelevant match and you won't see that kid's interview on the big screen.
I find it interesting, and a contradiction, that you feel so strongly that wrestling at the big show is a driving force; then want wrestlers to risk that "big show" experience in an irrelevant match. I am back to an earlier statement, sub in a JV wrestler at that point. The score isn't being run up, there is limited risk of advancing due to injury; it is a positive experience with limited pressure for the JV wrestler.
Having said all of that, it wouldn't bother me one bit, either way, if my kids were participating in a dual after the win is locked. I just don't think it is fair or acceptable to criticize Freedom or Coleman for protecting the individual interests of their wrestlers at a team event. They earned the right with prior wins to make that decision, they can exercise that right.
Thats all I have to say about that! We can agree to disagree...
Quote from: Vinsanity 4 on February 18, 2015, 03:52:41 PM
I have seen both Bloy and Peplinski wrestle more than once this year and although Bloy's unorthodox style might confuse and or antagonize Peplinski for a short time I believe Peplinski would eventually get mad of having his head hung on and turn it on in the 3rd period and win convincingly. Yes Freedom big underdog at 170 as well. JMO and not from WB either.
From what I've seen, I don't think a lot of people "turn it on" in the 3rd period against Bloy. ::)
I consider it smart to forfeit matches once the meet is over. Why risk injury in a meaningless match when a state title is on the line.
The coach is in the best tactical position to make the call. Some coaches will wrestle the matches, and some will not.
Exactly my thoughts on this subject! If we as a wrestling community keep this garbage up, the school bureacrats are going to start really limiting matches and I don't think we want that.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 07:30:24 AM
I don't buy the "he might get injured" statement. If everyone is so afraid of kids getting hurt before sectionals why do we have a team state? These are high school kids let them wrestle. Theses kids have wrestled 40 or 50 matches already this year. Com on man! Everyone talks about the numbers in wrestling dwindling, well start filling the stands with a great product and more kids will want to be part of it.
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
#2 120 Blanchard Coleman wins 2-0 over #2 113 Schoenherr Stratford. Great battle.
Quote from: blacknblue on February 20, 2015, 09:14:20 AM
#2 120 Blanchard Coleman wins 2-0 over #2 113 Schoenherr Stratford. Great battle.
Actually it was 5-3. Great match!
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:48:47 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
Because they have that good competition right in there wrestling rooms. Very few high schools have that.
Quote from: wrestle84 on February 20, 2015, 10:44:43 AM
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:48:47 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
Because they have that good competition right in there wrestling rooms. Very few high schools have that.
Now that we know that...we better start getting these kids at least 100 matches.....LOL...some colleges have great partners for most of their wrestlers....but most are only good at a couple of weight. If it were as you suggest then places like NorthWestern and Indiana would not have had to ff weight classes. The idea more is better is part of the problem with attracting numbers to our sport.
Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose? No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:48:47 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
Do I agree with Freedom FF last 3? Hard to say, they accomplished their goal, making it through team sectionals, are they required to entertain the crowd? Do you want to shoot it out with their best Tuesday or Saturday? Is it worth risk of injury when you can't afford to miss this weekend? The only real problem I have with this is the kids from the other team earned the right to wrestle on Tuesday and should have a match even if it was against your JV wrestler. Otherwise I am good with it.
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 11:09:57 AM
Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose? No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:48:47 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.
Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste. Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!
I think you may need glasses! Once again, I didn't say anything about growing wrestling or anything about the fans. This is about competition. When competition is standing across the mat from you ready to wrestle, you don't forfeit, you wrestle. There are a whole lot of high school or college kids that get 50 matches. 50 matches is an anomaly for most kids and most teams whether in high school or college. 30-40 matches is probably about the norm for college and high school.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 11:09:57 AM
Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose? No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:48:47 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.
Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste. Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 12:08:16 PM
I think you may need glasses! Once again, I didn't say anything about growing wrestling or anything about the fans. This is about competition. When competition is standing across the mat from you ready to wrestle, you don't forfeit, you wrestle. There are a whole lot of high school or college kids that get 50 matches. 50 matches is an anomaly for most kids and most teams whether in high school or college. 30-40 matches is probably about the norm for college and high school.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 11:09:57 AM
Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose? No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:48:47 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.
Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste. Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!
That is completely your opinion....your entitled to that...but I am glad most coaches will base their decision on what's best for their wrestler...not your need for competition. Btw...you really need to check your match counts.... From what I see college is around mid thirties and high school is closer to 50.... That's not all but most!
Btw...trackwrestling is showing kids from Burlington already have 46 matches....I am not sure that all matches are entered in track so it could be more....by the time individual state and team state is over...they will certainly be over 50 matches.
Quote from: Orca on February 20, 2015, 06:46:06 AM
Quote from: Vinsanity 4 on February 18, 2015, 03:52:41 PM
I have seen both Bloy and Peplinski wrestle more than once this year and although Bloy's unorthodox style might confuse and or antagonize Peplinski for a short time I believe Peplinski would eventually get mad of having his head hung on and turn it on in the 3rd period and win convincingly. Yes Freedom big underdog at 170 as well. JMO and not from WB either.
From what I've seen, I don't think a lot of people "turn it on" in the 3rd period against Bloy. ::)
Haha I was thinking the same thing you would have to be in better shape than Kyle Dake lol
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 12:18:51 PM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 12:08:16 PM
I think you may need glasses! Once again, I didn't say anything about growing wrestling or anything about the fans. This is about competition. When competition is standing across the mat from you ready to wrestle, you don't forfeit, you wrestle. There are a whole lot of high school or college kids that get 50 matches. 50 matches is an anomaly for most kids and most teams whether in high school or college. 30-40 matches is probably about the norm for college and high school.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 11:09:57 AM
Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose? No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:48:47 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.
Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste. Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!
That is completely your opinion....your entitled to that...but I am glad most coaches will base their decision on what's best for their wrestler...not your need for competition. Btw...you really need to check your match counts.... From what I see college is around mid thirties and high school is closer to 50.... That's not all but most!
There is no reason to forfeit a match. You are in the sport of wrestling to compete and when your match is up you wrestle. If I were the coach you should have your wrestler wrestle his match. This sport is not just for the competition, but as a guidance on how to become a better individual in life. Your reason about college wrestling is completely irrelevant since college starts in September and gets done when school is out. High school has weight allowance and college does not. High school has more competition vs. college wrestling so that is why they have more matches.
Quote from: jaguarwrestler on February 20, 2015, 11:21:55 AM
Do I agree with Freedom FF last 3? Hard to say, they accomplished their goal, making it through team sectionals, are they required to entertain the crowd? Do you want to shoot it out with their best Tuesday or Saturday? Is it worth risk of injury when you can't afford to miss this weekend? The only real problem I have with this is the kids from the other team earned the right to wrestle on Tuesday and should have a match even if it was against your JV wrestler. Otherwise I am good with it.
I really agree with the way you put this, FF matches once they have accomplished their goal is not unusual. I keep thinking back to the time I was watching team sectionals and this same thing happened. For 2 seniors on the loosing team this was going to be their final match of their high school careers. For 4 years they had been a part of the team, all the hours in the practice room and long weekends at the tournaments, In my opinion they earned the right to be able to wrestle their last match but ended being told these matches didn't matter. You could tell by their faces these matches mattered to them.
Quote from: Jim Rockford on February 20, 2015, 12:27:56 PM
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 12:18:51 PM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 12:08:16 PM
I think you may need glasses! Once again, I didn't say anything about growing wrestling or anything about the fans. This is about competition. When competition is standing across the mat from you ready to wrestle, you don't forfeit, you wrestle. There are a whole lot of high school or college kids that get 50 matches. 50 matches is an anomaly for most kids and most teams whether in high school or college. 30-40 matches is probably about the norm for college and high school.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 11:09:57 AM
Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose? No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:48:47 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.
Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste. Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!
That is completely your opinion....your entitled to that...but I am glad most coaches will base their decision on what's best for their wrestler...not your need for competition. Btw...you really need to check your match counts.... From what I see college is around mid thirties and high school is closer to 50.... That's not all but most!
There is no reason to forfeit a match. You are in the sport of wrestling to compete and when your match is up you wrestle. If I were the coach you should have your wrestler wrestle his match. This sport is not just for the competition, but as a guidance on how to become a better individual in life. Your reason about college wrestling is completely irrelevant since college starts in September and gets done when school is out. High school has weight allowance and college does not. High school has more competition vs. college wrestling so that is why they have more matches.
Again your entitled to your opinion....and I am glad most coaches put there wrestlers best interest before your opinion.
I hate to add any facts to this thread, but in my review of the Burlington Sectional, on average 1 kid in each weight class has a chance to get 50+ matches if he wrestles a couple matches at the state tournament and these are kids from elite programs that are involved in large tournaments in addition to state duals competition. By my calculation that is about 12% of wrestlers which is a far cry from "most" wrestlers. I would characterize that as a small fraction, and yes, it is my opinion that 12% is a small fraction.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 12:18:51 PM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 12:08:16 PM
I think you may need glasses! Once again, I didn't say anything about growing wrestling or anything about the fans. This is about competition. When competition is standing across the mat from you ready to wrestle, you don't forfeit, you wrestle. There are a whole lot of high school or college kids that get 50 matches. 50 matches is an anomaly for most kids and most teams whether in high school or college. 30-40 matches is probably about the norm for college and high school.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 11:09:57 AM
Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose? No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:48:47 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.
Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste. Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!
That is completely your opinion....your entitled to that...but I am glad most coaches will base their decision on what's best for their wrestler...not your need for competition. Btw...you really need to check your match counts.... From what I see college is around mid thirties and high school is closer to 50.... That's not all but most!
Btw...trackwrestling is showing kids from Burlington already have 46 matches....I am not sure that all matches are entered in track so it could be more....by the time individual state and team state is over...they will certainly be over 50 matches.
Talk about beating a dead horse!!!
Its pretty clear that both sides arent going to budge on their stance. Just move on.
Quote from: WINfan on February 20, 2015, 12:45:31 PM
Talk about beating a dead horse!!!
Its pretty clear that both sides arent going to budge on their stance. Just move on.
+1
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 12:44:23 PM
I hate to add any facts to this thread, but in my review of the Burlington Sectional, on average 1 kid in each weight class has a chance to get 50+ matches if he wrestles a couple matches at the state tournament and these are kids from elite programs that are involved in large tournaments in addition to state duals competition. By my calculation that is about 12% of wrestlers which is a far cry from "most" wrestlers. I would characterize that as a small fraction, and yes, it is my opinion that 12% is a small fraction.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 12:18:51 PM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 12:08:16 PM
I think you may need glasses! Once again, I didn't say anything about growing wrestling or anything about the fans. This is about competition. When competition is standing across the mat from you ready to wrestle, you don't forfeit, you wrestle. There are a whole lot of high school or college kids that get 50 matches. 50 matches is an anomaly for most kids and most teams whether in high school or college. 30-40 matches is probably about the norm for college and high school.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 11:09:57 AM
Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose? No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:48:47 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 08:44:12 AM
Who said anything about entertainment value? It's about competition. The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.
Quote from: aarons23 on February 20, 2015, 08:24:34 AM
Quote from: stbird on February 20, 2015, 07:50:57 AM
Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%. Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury. If he is fine, let him wrestle.
Quote from: missinghome on February 19, 2015, 08:59:29 AM
I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"
Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.
Really? So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?
The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.
Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste. Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!
That is completely your opinion....your entitled to that...but I am glad most coaches will base their decision on what's best for their wrestler...not your need for competition. Btw...you really need to check your match counts.... From what I see college is around mid thirties and high school is closer to 50.... That's not all but most!
Btw...trackwrestling is showing kids from Burlington already have 46 matches....I am not sure that all matches are entered in track so it could be more....by the time individual state and team state is over...they will certainly be over 50 matches.
I will bet it's much higher than you think because not all matches are posted on track.....I bet most JV matches are not. Either way......you want everyone to wrestle every match....your opinion.....coaches responsibilities aren't to you or me...it to their wrestlers.
I asked some of our old great Athens teams if Mr Wagner ever had them forfeit a match. They said inappropriate term3 no! he always said we are here to wrestle. The best scouting report you can get is to wrestle he would always say. But what did he know right?
Did Athens ever win a Team Sectional?
Further, did Athens ever win a Team Sectional with 14 weight classes?
I gots to agree with Aarons on this one,most top kids that will be wrestling at state next week will be awful close to 50 matches after sectionals,mine has 45 in right now,after state tourney last yr was at 54 matches(a lot more matches than colleges kids are wrestling).Had this very conversation with our coaching staff last night if we were wrestling in team sectional dual and dual was basically over(we would forfeit out),why risk injury before ind sectionals.
Quote from: Dale Einerson on February 20, 2015, 01:46:51 PM
Did Athens ever win a Team Sectional?
I do believe they did in 92,93,94 and 95, the first 4 years done in a dual format.
this is about Team, not individual... if the Team already won, then they can forfeit to save their guys...not a big deal.
But I can understand some people frustration, but really, if ya wanna wrestle, win in the individual portion of the postseason so you continue your career.
There will never be a rule saying a team cant forfeit a match if the coach so decides to do so in regards to Time and the individual... At Team Sectionals you are wrestling your 1st dual and you have a 2nd dual yet to wrestle, if you have the win locked up you are gonna call it a dual and get ready for the next one. Saves time and energy.
Is it commonplace for teams to forfeit if they have the dual locked up at the Clash?
Being the coach for Wittenberg-Birnamwood, I have no problem with what Freedom did. We forfeited two weights against Two Rivers and one weight to Freedom in last years TEAM sectional. I do have a problem with the "if I were the coach" comments though, because until you are put in that position, you really don't know the situation. If Freedom would have wrestled the last three and someone of importance did get hurt, we would have another topic to read on how stupid of a decision it was to wrestle those matches when they had the TEAM title locked up. In our sport, what the Freedom coach did was no different than the Packers sitting Aaron Rodgers with a 20 point lead in the fourth quarter. All in all, I do understand both sides, but don't knock these coaches. I know that our wrestlers know exactly what we are going to do going into the TEAM sectional, because they are talked to(coached up) way before the dual even starts.
Since both teams are aloud to dress 28 wrestlers I think? Why not send out second stringers and let them get some experience ?
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 05:37:02 PM
Quote from: Orca on February 18, 2015, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: maggie on February 18, 2015, 12:06:55 PM
just curious , how many matches did freedom happen to forfeit?... I'm also wondering of those matches that were forfeited, was it because the wrestlers might meet again this weekend...thanks if anyone knows...
They forfeited 3...they were major underdogs in all three though.
Bloy was a major underdog against Peplinski?
VanGrinsven was a major underdog against Kreger?
I will agree with you at 170, but that statement is a bit reaching sir.
JV vs. Kreger at 170
VanGrinsven vs. Peplinski at 182
Bloy vs. Peplinski 195
Yes...3 major underdogs.
While some may speculate that because of rankings Bloy and Peplinski are dead even I do not see that as the case....to me Bloy is wrestling a weight up from where he should be...but I guess they will see on Saturday.
It's highly difficult to take Peplinski down...same goes with getting away from him...and pretty much not going to ride him out. It will be a different animal for Bloy...I guess see how that style works out....that style didn't work that great at 220 and 285 for them and is hard to watch at times.
#4 195 Ramsey Bloy over #1 195 August Peplinski 8-3
Quote from: Orca on February 21, 2015, 06:27:00 PM
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 05:37:02 PM
Quote from: Orca on February 18, 2015, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: padre on February 18, 2015, 01:53:46 PM
Quote from: maggie on February 18, 2015, 12:06:55 PM
just curious , how many matches did freedom happen to forfeit?... I'm also wondering of those matches that were forfeited, was it because the wrestlers might meet again this weekend...thanks if anyone knows...
They forfeited 3...they were major underdogs in all three though.
Bloy was a major underdog against Peplinski?
VanGrinsven was a major underdog against Kreger?
I will agree with you at 170, but that statement is a bit reaching sir.
JV vs. Kreger at 170
VanGrinsven vs. Peplinski at 182
Bloy vs. Peplinski 195
Yes...3 major underdogs.
While some may speculate that because of rankings Bloy and Peplinski are dead even I do not see that as the case....to me Bloy is wrestling a weight up from where he should be...but I guess they will see on Saturday.
It's highly difficult to take Peplinski down...same goes with getting away from him...and pretty much not going to ride him out. It will be a different animal for Bloy...I guess see how that style works out....that style didn't work that great at 220 and 285 for them and is hard to watch at times.
#4 195 Ramsey Bloy over #1 195 August Peplinski 8-3
Wasn't that said by one of his coaches? How does crow taste?
No it was not said by a coach. And crow is fine with BBQ! Bloy pulled the upset. Good wrestling. Cant wait for the rematch at State
Plenty of favorites went down. Crow is fine by me. At least he lost to a senior I guess.
Quote from: Vinsanity 4 on February 21, 2015, 06:58:36 PM
No it was not said by a coach. And crow is fine with BBQ! Bloy pulled the upset. Good wrestling. Cant wait for the rematch at State
Looked to me like it wasent an upset more of a domination/statement...
Quote from: Vinsanity 4 on February 21, 2015, 06:58:36 PM
No it was not said by a coach. And crow is fine with BBQ! Bloy pulled the upset. Good wrestling. Cant wait for the rematch at State
It was said by one of his coaches...along with other statements about his kids being the favorite. ...not to smart of a coach on an open forum.
Quote from: Vinsanity 4 on February 18, 2015, 03:52:41 PM
I have seen both Bloy and Peplinski wrestle more than once this year and although Bloy's unorthodox style might confuse and or antagonize Peplinski for a short time I believe Peplinski would eventually get mad of having his head hung on and turn it on in the 3rd period and win convincingly. Yes Freedom big underdog at 170 as well. JMO and not from WB either.
So much for turning it on in the third period. Injury time and all and he still couldn't get his energy back.
Quote from: Vinsanity 4 on February 21, 2015, 06:58:36 PM
No it was not said by a coach. And crow is fine with BBQ! Bloy pulled the upset. Good wrestling. Cant wait for the rematch at State
I am not sure how this can be called an upset. Bloy only had one loss to Waddell from Menomonie at the Cheesehead and looks like he took it to Peplinski. I would love to see the rematch in the finals. Hopefully there are no timeouts when that happens.
It is what it is. Bloy wrestled very well and took down what most would call is a "whale" of a opponent. I've been making predictions since the forum started and accept my prediction for THIS weekend was wrong....doesn't mean on paper it wasn't an upset. The weight class looks like "one for the ages" next weekend!!!!
Quote from: WINfan on February 21, 2015, 09:00:17 PM
Quote from: Vinsanity 4 on February 18, 2015, 03:52:41 PM
I have seen both Bloy and Peplinski wrestle more than once this year and although Bloy's unorthodox style might confuse and or antagonize Peplinski for a short time I believe Peplinski would eventually get mad of having his head hung on and turn it on in the 3rd period and win convincingly. Yes Freedom big underdog at 170 as well. JMO and not from WB either.
So much for turning it on in the third period. Injury time and all and he still couldn't get his energy back.
This may be the most fun weight class in D2 to watch this weekend.
then it looks tho like we're all in for a heck treat in the first round match up @182 between the young Waddell from Menomonie and Miltons Wileman...should be great!... :) ....
In a huge match yesterday in the match up of the day In Sun Prairie, the young Collin Kraus from Stoughton beat Wilmots Jake Morgan 8-7 a great wild match! Morgan started out with a 5 pt move and looked to have Kraus dead flat pined, only to suffer an INJ, but keep coming back to wrestle, Kraus then put on a TD clinic and gutter out the match to win, and i have to say, that the boos heard after that match made some people really sick!..to those who were one of them, you have no fricken clue!...if a wrestler decided to gut it out after an INJ as the young Morgan so bravely did, it's not the responsibility of the other wrestler to lighten up!...and the young Kraus didn't one bit and never showed one single sign of unsportsmanlike conduct in his wrestling in that match,...instead of them boos, ya should have been on your feet applauding them both! matches like that are far and in between and all we can do is hope to see it one more time....to the young Kraus i say, put that Garbage behind ya, ya wrestled a great and just match! good luck kid..
Quote from: maggie on February 22, 2015, 09:39:52 AM
In a huge match yesterday in the match up of the day In Sun Prairie, the young Collin Kraus from Stoughton beat Wilmots Jake Morgan 8-7 a great wild match! Morgan started out with a 5 pt move and looked to have Kraus dead flat pined, only to suffer an INJ, but keep coming back to wrestle, Kraus then put on a TD clinic and gutter out the match to win, and i have to say, that the boos heard after that match made some people really sick!..to those who were one of them, you have no fricken clue!...if a wrestler decided to gut it out after an INJ as the young Morgan so bravely did, it's not the responsibility of the other wrestler to lighten up!...and the young Kraus didn't one bit and never showed one single sign of unsportsmanlike conduct in his wrestling in that match,...instead of them boos, ya should have been on your feet applauding them both! matches like that are far and in between and all we can do is hope to see it one more time....to the young Kraus i say, put that Garbage behind ya, ya wrestled a great and just match! good luck kid..
Did anyone else notice Kraus should have been given choice for the 3rd period but wasn't?
Quote from: maggie on February 22, 2015, 09:39:52 AM
In a huge match yesterday in the match up of the day In Sun Prairie, the young Collin Kraus from Stoughton beat Wilmots Jake Morgan 8-7 a great wild match! Morgan started out with a 5 pt move and looked to have Kraus dead flat pined, only to suffer an INJ, but keep coming back to wrestle, Kraus then put on a TD clinic and gutter out the match to win, and i have to say, that the boos heard after that match made some people really sick!..to those who were one of them, you have no fricken clue!...if a wrestler decided to gut it out after an INJ as the young Morgan so bravely did, it's not the responsibility of the other wrestler to lighten up!...and the young Kraus didn't one bit and never showed one single sign of unsportsmanlike conduct in his wrestling in that match,...instead of them boos, ya should have been on your feet applauding them both! matches like that are far and in between and all we can do is hope to see it one more time....to the young Kraus i say, put that Garbage behind ya, ya wrestled a great and just match! good luck kid..
Wow, how sad. They just don't make em like they used to. Sounds like a great match, wish I coulda seen it!!! Was badger state there?
not sure, i never seen sparky and crew there filming,....IMWI, if ya noticed that, ya also had to notice the starting for 3 different matches all started at 1:45..and that was after they closed down that mat for a 1/2 hr :o...and it was all at the same table.... :o
Quote from: wrestling135 on February 22, 2015, 10:27:09 AM
Quote from: maggie on February 22, 2015, 09:39:52 AM
In a huge match yesterday in the match up of the day In Sun Prairie, the young Collin Kraus from Stoughton beat Wilmots Jake Morgan 8-7 a great wild match! Morgan started out with a 5 pt move and looked to have Kraus dead flat pined, only to suffer an INJ, but keep coming back to wrestle, Kraus then put on a TD clinic and gutter out the match to win, and i have to say, that the boos heard after that match made some people really sick!..to those who were one of them, you have no fricken clue!...if a wrestler decided to gut it out after an INJ as the young Morgan so bravely did, it's not the responsibility of the other wrestler to lighten up!...and the young Kraus didn't one bit and never showed one single sign of unsportsmanlike conduct in his wrestling in that match,...instead of them boos, ya should have been on your feet applauding them both! matches like that are far and in between and all we can do is hope to see it one more time....to the young Kraus i say, put that Garbage behind ya, ya wrestled a great and just match! good luck kid..
Wow, how sad. They just don't make em like they used to. Sounds like a great match, wish I coulda seen it!!! Was badger state there?
Yes they were
Quote from: maggie on February 22, 2015, 09:39:52 AM
In a huge match yesterday in the match up of the day In Sun Prairie, the young Collin Kraus from Stoughton beat Wilmots Jake Morgan 8-7 a great wild match! Morgan started out with a 5 pt move and looked to have Kraus dead flat pined, only to suffer an INJ, but keep coming back to wrestle, Kraus then put on a TD clinic and gutter out the match to win, and i have to say, that the boos heard after that match made some people really sick!..to those who were one of them, you have no fricken clue!...if a wrestler decided to gut it out after an INJ as the young Morgan so bravely did, it's not the responsibility of the other wrestler to lighten up!...and the young Kraus didn't one bit and never showed one single sign of unsportsmanlike conduct in his wrestling in that match,...instead of them boos, ya should have been on your feet applauding them both! matches like that are far and in between and all we can do is hope to see it one more time....to the young Kraus i say, put that Garbage behind ya, ya wrestled a great and just match! good luck kid..
Not excusing the boos, but dis Kraus get off his back due to the injury? Nothing brings out the boo-birds more than a guy yelping to escape the pin, then coming back fine-and-dandy. Dunno if that happened in this match; but it does happen.
Quote from: bigG on February 22, 2015, 10:58:17 AM
Quote from: maggie on February 22, 2015, 09:39:52 AM
In a huge match yesterday in the match up of the day In Sun Prairie, the young Collin Kraus from Stoughton beat Wilmots Jake Morgan 8-7 a great wild match! Morgan started out with a 5 pt move and looked to have Kraus dead flat pined, only to suffer an INJ, but keep coming back to wrestle, Kraus then put on a TD clinic and gutter out the match to win, and i have to say, that the boos heard after that match made some people really sick!..to those who were one of them, you have no fricken clue!...if a wrestler decided to gut it out after an INJ as the young Morgan so bravely did, it's not the responsibility of the other wrestler to lighten up!...and the young Kraus didn't one bit and never showed one single sign of unsportsmanlike conduct in his wrestling in that match,...instead of them boos, ya should have been on your feet applauding them both! matches like that are far and in between and all we can do is hope to see it one more time....to the young Kraus i say, put that Garbage behind ya, ya wrestled a great and just match! good luck kid..
Not excusing the boos, but dis Kraus get off his back due to the injury? Nothing brings out the boo-birds more than a guy yelping to escape the pin, then coming back fine-and-dandy. Dunno if that happened in this match; but it does happen.
No not at all, Morgan was the one injured not Kraus. The boos started when Kraus was on top, had his leg in on Morgan's injured leg then reached back and grabbed the ankle and elevated it. Then it just went on from there. Morgan congratulated Kraus after the match so didn't look to me like there were any hard feelings. Helluva match
Sometimes I think adult fans forget that the two guys out there really are just kids. I've been guilty of this myself. Your emotions are already high, and you see something you don't like, and respond in a way you never would ordinarily.
I've always thought that as a fan, my goal should be to master my emotions. I want our wrestlers to compete to the very best of their ability, why shouldn't I ask the same of myself as a fan? Why should I be able to give into every impulse, and say whatever stupid thing that comes to my head? That is weak. Being a good sport takes strength and self control.
I really hope to never boo a teenager in my lifetime.
+a bazillion
Actually, I don't believe it was even his bad side...but ya had to love that move Morgan has mastered ha IMWI? one has to go back a long, long ways to remember the true master of that move, Racine parks 3 time state champion Frank Velasquez..... ;)...heck of a move!
Quote from: maggie on February 22, 2015, 12:51:21 PM
Actually, I don't believe it was even his bad side...but ya had to love that move Morgan has mastered ha IMWI? one has to go back a long, long ways to remember the true master of that move, Racine parks 3 time state champion Frank Velasquez..... ;)...heck of a move!
It was his bad side...let's wait for Shane to get the matches up. So, any other time, great move but since the kid is injured, now he gets booed. Fans...gotta luv 'em! I had no dog in that fight but did watch it, hate to see the booing.
Ok,I believe ya.....
When our kids were competing in sports, it could get pretty darn emotional at times, but I don't recall ever booing a call or an opponent. My better half used to get a lot more wound up than I, so I got her a video camera (VHS!). It gave her something to "focus" on, so her emotions didn't get her kicked out of the event. ;) I used to tease her about it, but she said it really did help; plus, she did a great job of filming. Neither of us felt it was right for fans to disrespect the kids and the refs. Pretty inconsistent with the supposed objective of teaching sportsmanship... ::)
I just watched the Kraus and Morgan match. And all I can say is wow, what a shame! Some people just don't know one inappropriate term3 of a wrestling match when they see it. The boos were completely uncalled for. Kraus simply put on a dominate performance as usual. Morgan Continued to wrestle after being injured and Kraus did what it took to win the match. Yes people, getting rough and being physical is a part of this sport. And Kraus did a wonderful job executing that.! Congratulations Collin! Hopefully Morgan gets healed up by state because he was looking like an animal in the first! Both of these two are going to give Lee all he can handle!
Booing a great match. Sad day.
I get emotional as heck when I coach; but you gotta give props the other teams, too.
I wanna see this match when I get a chance.
Quote from: maggie on February 22, 2015, 09:39:52 AM
In a huge match yesterday in the match up of the day In Sun Prairie, the young Collin Kraus from Stoughton beat Wilmots Jake Morgan 8-7 a great wild match! Morgan started out with a 5 pt move and looked to have Kraus dead flat pined, only to suffer an INJ, but keep coming back to wrestle, Kraus then put on a TD clinic and gutter out the match to win, and i have to say, that the boos heard after that match made some people really sick!..to those who were one of them, you have no fricken clue!...if a wrestler decided to gut it out after an INJ as the young Morgan so bravely did, it's not the responsibility of the other wrestler to lighten up!...and the young Kraus didn't one bit and never showed one single sign of unsportsmanlike conduct in his wrestling in that match,...instead of them boos, ya should have been on your feet applauding them both! matches like that are far and in between and all we can do is hope to see it one more time....to the young Kraus i say, put that Garbage behind ya, ya wrestled a great and just match! good luck kid..
I agree completely. Looked like an outstanding match between two competitors. That booing was completely unnecessary. Both wrestlers were competing to win and it is too bad that Morgan had an injury. Nothing is better than when two guys go out there with that kind of intensity. Hats off to both those kids.