What are we doing wrong? List 3 problems/solutions

[Tonto]

How do you questions the state tournament.  So if you do not what your kid to wrestle at regionals and state until they are in the 5th grade than you have the right to have them not participate.  But do not imply on taking something away that allot of kids look forward to and work there buts off to get there.  This is more than just wrestling.  This is structure and life lessons to survive.

[Dale Einerson]

I didn't offer an opinion, please note that.

But, somehow, baseball, basketball, hockey and football all do fine without an extra 3-5 years of state competition.  And those folks typically aren't into weight management.  It is an interesting perspective.

My twins did it differently, they skipped the youth tournaments, except for 1-2/year their last 3 years of youth, then did State, Nationals, etc...  So, different strokes.

[Dale Einerson]

I didn't offer an opinion, please note that.

But, somehow, baseball, basketball, hockey and football all do fine without an extra 3-5 years of state competition.  And those folks typically aren't into weight management.  It is an interesting perspective.

My twins did it differently, they skipped the youth tournaments, except for 1-2/year their last 3 years of youth, then did State, Nationals, etc...  So, different strokes.

And, nobody really listens to anything people post on the forum anyway, except for that Dad that is trying to preserve his kiddies perfect record by ducking and dodging, right up until the semi-finals at State.

[madeyson]

Check out Pop Warner football - nationals for 7 year olds...yes WI doesn't have it and relatively speaking have very few kids from the state that play D1. Not sure what was meant by dads protecting their kids until the state semis finals?? We all get the choice how we raise our kids - why take the state tournament away from the kids that want to do it. Wonder how many of last years HS state champs placed at the WWF tournament before 5th grade?

[DocWrestling]

Wonder how many of last years HS state champs placed at the WWF tournament before 5th grade?

I think you would find plenty of state champs that placed before 5th grade.  Big Deal.  I think you would find a lot more wrestlers that placed at the WWF state tournament before 5th grade that never even wrestled in high school!  So what does that mean.

You seem to be missing the point with this quote above.  99% of wrestlers will never be a high school state champ but they get just as much if not more out of the sport than those state champs that get all the success and awards.  If you are going to start in 3rd grade thinking that is somehow preparing that wrestler to win a state title I think you are mistaken.  Many parents seem to forget you cannot have any success in high school if you do not go out for high school wrestling and many quit.  Goals should be to make it fun so they keep coming back.  Kids drop in middle school because they start thinking for themselves.  Youth wrestlers do what there parents tell them too without thinking.

[ChargerDad]

-Parents caring too much about wins and losses of youth wrestlers.  Parents screaming like absolute fools from the mat side, yelling at their kids in the stands because they didn't listen.. Parents complain about the number of state qualifiers in their bracket at a local tournament, avoid going to some tournaments because they know there is a kid there that always beats their kid.  If you have a kid that always seems to have your kids number, chase him down.. Finally beating that kid will do wonders for your kids confidence.  Parents sandbag their kids abilities, even for those who have qualified for state "well, it's his down year", "it's only his 2nd or 3rd tourney of the year"...  My point of view might be a little tainted here because I have a bigger kid and it's tougher to find good matches, but when I get a bracket with good wrestlers, I'm happy! I'll try to go to tournaments where better wrestlers will be, or bump him up to get more difficult matches.  You should be chasing down good competition, not running from it.  Nobody is going to care when you are a freshmen in high school what your trackwrestling profile says regarding youth tourneys.

-Kids cutting weight - takes the fun out of wrestling for the kids, and I doubt it's the best thing to do on a regular basis for a growing kid.. wrestle your weight at least until regional qualifiers, and if you want to cut a little weight there, drop a couple pounds.  Your kid will actually benefit from wrestling heavier stronger wrestlers all year.  The weight cutting kind of goes back to my first point, parents care so much about winning a youth tourney they have their kids cut to try and win.

-Too many tournaments - How many years do you think most kids enjoy wrestling 2 days a weekend for 3 months straight??   Others have said this already, but the most important mat time is at practice, not for 10-15 minutes at a tournament.

Two years ago, I started turning into that crazy dad..  with my son in 2nd grade, I went to at least one tournament a weekend from December until the end of the season..  He improved as a wrestler, but not as much as I had hoped and I started thinking what I could do to make him want to get better.. me wanting him to get better wasn't going do anything, he had to want to get better himself and being a crazy dad wasn't going to help at all...  I did not grow up wrestling, as the school I went to did not have a wrestling team, but I started to look back at my experiences in those other sports, and what motivated me.  Yes, competing against athletes from other schools/clubs played a role, but there were other things too..   watching the high school athletes and going to watch collegiate events were two things that motivated me.. the gave me something to look forward to and aspire too..  I never ended up playing collegiate sports, but it still played a role in motivating me as a youth and high school athlete...  So, last year, I started taking my son to as my of our high school wrestling duals and tournaments as possible, sometimes even at the expense of participating in youth tournaments.  We went to probably 8 tournaments before regionals, and he made the most improvement he's made in a year to date.. this year, we are hitting a few college duals in addition to the high school matches.  Now, he has something to look to in the future, a reason he needs to work his butt off in practice..  It's not for some corny trophy or medal at a weekend youth tourney..  it's not even for a youth state title (though that would be nice having come up 1 win short last year, it's certainly not the end goal).  It's to be a good wrestler in High School, be a HS State Champ, and if you are fortunate enough, to wrestle in college.  Screaming at your kid, having him cut weight week in and week out, wrestling 100+ matches a year.... for most kids, none of those things are going to help you get there.. motivating him to put the necessary effort in on the practice mat is what will make him that, and for my kid, a more relaxed schedule and watching older wrestlers seems to be working for now :-)

[imnofish]

Just don't forget to give time for fun away from wrestling.  Your son's relationship with you needs to be much more than the pursuit of wrestling success.  My son and I did a lot of ice fishing, then hiking, camping, canoeing, bass fishing, and panfishing in the summer, at his request.  We made a lot of great memories, cultivated lifelong hobbies that he and I now share with his children; also took a lot of pressure off of him so he could get the most enjoyment from the sport he loved.  He had the added pressure (from community, peers, etc.) of an older sibling who was a high school state champ (track).  High expectations from others can be tough for some kids to deal with; we need to be aware of what they are going through, by carefully listening and observing.  One thing that is critical, in many instances is to turn the coaching reins over to others, sit back in the stands and just be a supportive parent.  I actually quit coaching high school wrestling to take pressure off of him and the family, which turned out to be a very good step.  Things can be rolling along nicely, in terms of wrestling success/improvement, and then suddenly hit a wall; anything you can do proactively will be very helpful. 

[Hillbilly]

Some observations from last year.   These are observations of a parent of a first year wrestler who was 5 years old.   1.  More parents show crazy behavior than I ever thought possible.   Aged 4-6 year old kid comes off the mat crying after losing and parents demanding the child stops crying.  Even seen parents yell at kids for crying.  If you asked normal people when is it okay to yell at a kid for crying?  The answer would be never. 

2.  Most clubs don't have a coach mat side.  There were a few who always did and I'll say I never saw a Milton kid who didn't have a coach separate of a parent.  Parents should be the ones filming the match and cheering.  Coaches talk to the kids before the match, help them make choices between periods and talk to them after the match.   Imagine being a parent who never wrestled and you're the only one matside for your kid.  A few feet away is the other kids parent yelling out moves and telling their kid what to choose between periods.  Your kids choice and you don't even know what the choices are.   Probably not a great tournament experience for you.  You'll probably find better things to do on weekends. 

3.  Some clubs run excellent fast moving tournaments.  Some don't.   But why should we expect a club full of volunteers should be efficient and well organized?  Because they do this once a year?   Maybe there should be fewer tournaments, run by organizations who do this sort of thing for profit.  With rules about where parents can be, and where coaches should be.  If an organization did this and had well run tournaments, bracketing kids based on age, weight and experience/ability it would attract more participants.  Let's say there were 8 tournaments run statewide every other weekend.  If parents wanted more matches for their kids they can always drive across state lines to get them.

4.  My son begged me to take him to tournaments every weekend.   I wouldn't do it.  Sometimes I told them they were all filled up.  I'm not even sure if he loves wrestling because twice during the year he quit 15 minutes into practice.  Then he would ask if there is a tournament to go to that weekend.  He enjoyed playing with all the kids between his matches.  Playing games on phones and iPads and Nintendo DS.  He enjoyed making friends with the kids he wrestled against.  He liked seeing them 3-4 times at different tournaments.  Walking by them and high fiving them in the hallways.  He liked when a bunch of kids from his club were at the tournaments with him.  Warming up as a team all wearing the same shirt was a big deal to him. 

5.  Clubs should spend more time coaching parents on expectations.  Acceptable and unacceptable behaviors.  Your 3rd grader isn't winning a scholarship this year and ESPN isn't coming to show highlights of his matches.  Your kid is going to lose to kids you think he/she is better than.   By the way that kids parent thinks their kid should have won.  Also your kid is probably crying after losing.  It's okay that they cry.  They spend all day in school hearing how they are special and the best ever.  It's a big shot to their ego to learn someone else is actually better.  Your job is to get video evidence to show your wrestler what they look like out there.   They go to practice and see moves the coaches show them.  Show them the videos of themselves wrestling and let them tell you if it looks like how the coaches do it.  Video watching is for when they are ready to want to watch themselves.  It might not be until after the tournament is over. 

That's what I learned in year one.

[kpugh8680]

1. 6-8 graders are participating in middle school and cannot go or do not want to go to tournaments

2. Duel meets - most team sports and other individual sports allow for you to cheer on you teammate, at youth tournaments this is difficult. Often wrestlers are wrestling at the same time. You are watching a million other matches all around you. Participated in Law Duels and my son loved it. Would have to figure out some logistics though.

3. Hard sport. This is one of the hardest sports. Each match is basically a fight. You against the wrestler across from you with the winner sometimes hurting as much as the loser.

[chucko]

Hi Handles, give it time. Most of the kids are wrestling in middle school, and their conference rules don't allow wrestling tourneys inside their seasons.  Let's take a look later.  You asked for three problems and three solutions...

Three problems...the season is too long for all!  Many middle schools start their season in mid-October.  We encourage our wrestlers to go to go to other programs after our season is done.. When kids are asked to wrestle from October to March, that is way too long. Second, wrestling is a grueling sport.  It takes a toll on a body and a family.  Third, parents need to just let the kid wrestle and have fun...work hard...grow...and realize that the lessons learned from wrestling are great!  Let your child know that a loss is leading you to being a better wrestler!

Three solutions...
1.  ROPE OFF THE MATS at a youth tournement!  The pounding on the mat and yelling by anyone who is not a coach is ridiculous.  Sit in the stands!  No other sport allows spectators on the field!

2.  Shorten the season!  Let's start all middle school programs after The New Year.  Those kids who already wrestle for non-school programs will wrestle. WIAA needs to let these kids do both, wrestle at their youth program and wrestle for their school.  I know there is this belief that public school middle school programs are a joke...I disagree!  If you think it is not good enough, choose!  These public school programs are feeders for the the high school programs!  We have to welcome these new wrestlers to the sport.  Typically, middle school wrestling is free, and it is a great chance to get new kids into the sport!

3.  As uncomfortable as I am saying this, we need to change the singlets.  Yes, ! I am going to say the taboo. We have to do something about the singlet.  Half of the kids that I talk to say they refuse to wear the singlet.  I suggest that we encourage singlet makers to make a padded singlet so "all is not exposed."  If anyone thinks this is not a concern, their head is in the sand!

[missinghome]

 Now that I have one in high school my view is a lot different about what we are doing wrong. Last weekend was my middle school son's first tournament. WOW!  Just a few things I observed that I guess I never seen while I was in the mix.
1)Coaches literally jumping up and down screaming at refs, COACHES!
2) Parents screaming there fool heads off from the side of the mats,
3) Parents just screaming at there son's for losing
4) Parents telling there kids you can't eat that and the 3rd/4Th grade (very skinny) kid crying
5) 2ND grade kid walking around with 3 time national champ t-shirt on
6) parents and coaches getting there kid "psyched up" to wrestle the toughest 3rd grader he has ever wrestled (that is no joked I stood there and watched them do that in the hallway)
7) my favorite one.... I had a parent ask me if my son (who beat his son) would like to train with his son to make him better. We live over two hours apart, but he said he would drive him wherever we wanted to train. WTH! Then of course he would not leave me alone the entire tournament. He asked me what we do to make him (my son) so good. I told him we don't do anything. God did that.
This post will not make any sense to the crazy parents, but the ones with the good wrestlers will get it.   

[Houndhead]

1) People running youth tournaments that don't know what they are doing. There are too many tournaments that have high school kids reffing, 1/4 size mats, and WAY to many parents screaming at the top of their lungs mat side. To break it down - I get trying to have high school athletes involved in their sport - but having a high school kid that may or may not know all the rules try to ref is not in the best interest of the sport. The rules are already confusing to new comers to the sport. Someone is going to say it is not about winning and losing  - sorry but having a kid lose a match because the ref did not know the rules is not life...and all the other youth sports I have seen (football/basketball) use trained officials - let's follow suit. 1/4 size mats - how can a kid even learn how to do a double leg takedown on such a small mat? Even though the kids may only be 60 pounds doesn't mean that they need less room to wrestle. I for one get very frustrated at many tournaments I go to and I have been involved in the sport for 30 years. I can't even imagine what a first time parent thinks.
2) Agree with points on ranking your wrestler. If you are a state qualifier you are excellent....period. Don't try to justify it in your mind any other way - you get better by wrestling the good competition - not beating up on a first year wrestler.
3) Put more focus on practice. Somebody mentioned it above - the practice is where you become a better wrestler. I also believe there needs to be a lot of matches and competitions - but there needs to be a strong emphasis on creating a practice atmosphere where kids have fun AND work hard.

High school refs are not the problem....most do a great job.  1/4 mats for little guys  are not the problem.  Yes a 60# kid can easily do a double on a 1/4 mat. My 88# kid has no problem wrestling on a 1/4 mat.  If you learn at a young age to wrestle on a 1/4 mat you learn to score in small spaces.  When you get to larger mat...you should have no problem.

Cutting weight, crazy parents, and to many tourneys are the problem.  My boys are loving wrestling this year.  My middle one wrestled with his middle school (3 duals), one youth tourney and two dual meets.  He most likely will be off the next two weeks.  My youngest... 2 tourneys and 2 dual meets.  He would wrestle every day if we let him but he also needs to be a kid. 

My oldest is in high school....a senior.  Will be wrestling D1 next year in college.  He wrestled through youth as many tournaments and did all the running to Illinios tourneys that you possibly could. Yes he turned into a great wrestler.....but he also missed a great deal of being a kid....enjoying holiday meals, spending time with other friends etc....  I never realized this until he was a sophomore and came down really ill.  There was a time the doctors and us thought he would never wrestle again.....it devastated him.  For a time a was more worried about him mentally than the actual illness.  He identified as a wrestler.....and only a wrestler.  He truly thought his life was over.  Fortunately the doctors figured out what was going on and corrected it.  I vowed to never let my kids identify as one thing ever again.  He now is involved in other activities like 4-h and trap shooting.  He took last weekend and spent it with his god father ice fishing.  Wrestling is an important aspect of our lives....but not the only aspect. All my kids participate in other activities.....and yes... We miss wrestling for it.  Sometimes we take time off just to be kids.  Those who know my boys.....know they are still pretty good wrestlers.

Great post Aaron.