No wrestle offs this year.

[MNbadger]

Agreed!

There is something wrong when the supposed "best" wrestler cannot win the wrestle off.  And the excuse of styles is so infrequent that it is not worth canceling wrestle-offs. 

I will tell you that when all parents complain about the coach and playing time in other sports I always tell them that is why wrestling is so great.  The person that wins the wrestle off is the best and gets to wrestle varsity-  as long as grades are up and behavior and attendance are fine. 

No subjectivity.  No favoritism.

[Wisconsin Wrestling Fan]

Can we have WiWrestling Alumni wrestle-offs instead ? :-)

[Ty Clark]

Agreed!

There is something wrong when the supposed "best" wrestler cannot win the wrestle off.  And the excuse of styles is so infrequent that it is not worth canceling wrestle-offs.  

I will tell you that when all parents complain about the coach and playing time in other sports I always tell them that is why wrestling is so great.  The person that wins the wrestle off is the best and gets to wrestle varsity-  as long as grades are up and behavior and attendance are fine.  

No subjectivity.  No favoritism.

I figured there would be more of a split on the efficacy of wrestle-offs, but I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't really believe in them. I think I've written and deleted this in one form or another without posting it about five times, since I'm sick of arguing with people who confuse opinions with facts.  If you use wrestle-offs and swear by them, I'm not ragging on you for it. That's your philosophy (opinion), and this is mine.

Wrestle-offs are kind of like picking a quarterback based on which one completes more passes during 7-on-7. It shows you who can make the best reads, but it doesn't show who can do it the best under pressure (both mental pressure of the game and the physical pressure of the pass rush) or against a non-scout D (teammates). Yeah, if one quarterback competes 9/10 while the other throws three interceptions (or one wrestler tech falls the other) you might know something (but nothing you shouldn't have already known). Anything short of that, I think there are much better ways for a coach to evaluate the situation and determine the best possible line-up. Wrestle-offs can be sort of a cop-out for coaches (see below) who don't want to take heat for making tough decisions and/or aren't confident in their own judgement.

Why would I want my starter sloughing off in practice, since he knows he can win in a wrestle-off over his back-up?

Why would I want my starter avoiding wrestling with his back-up (or not practicing his go-to moves against him) in practice, because he doesn't want his back-up to learn his stuff and/or get better?

I only do the "show" of a wrestle-off when I want to put an underclassman in the line-up over a senior (Me copping-out to avoid heat/ giving the senior closure); otherwise, I tell the team every warm-up, every drill, every live go, every sprint, every time I tell them to wash the mats, is a wrestle-off. If I'm not certain of whom I want to start, as a last resort, I will watch one of their 2-2-2's in a practice without telling them and keep score in my head (They already know everything in practice could be a wrestle-off, so they better be going hard or risk losing their spot). I'd rather have that competition in the room every day, not just every couple of weeks in a wrestle-off.

(Not to mention the friction between teammates, extra weight-cuts, lost practice time, etc. that I've found come with wrestle-offs.)

[bigoil]

Agreed!

There is something wrong when the supposed "best" wrestler cannot win the wrestle off.  And the excuse of styles is so infrequent that it is not worth canceling wrestle-offs.  

I will tell you that when all parents complain about the coach and playing time in other sports I always tell them that is why wrestling is so great.  The person that wins the wrestle off is the best and gets to wrestle varsity-  as long as grades are up and behavior and attendance are fine.  

No subjectivity.  No favoritism.

I figured there would be more of a split on the efficacy of wrestle-offs, but I guess I'm one of the few who doesn't really believe in them. I think I've written and deleted this in one form or another without posting it about five times, since I'm sick of arguing with people who confuse opinions with facts.  If you use wrestle-offs and swear by them, I'm not ragging on you for it. That's your philosophy (opinion), and this is mine.

Wrestle-offs are kind of like picking a quarterback based on which one completes more passes during 7-on-7. It shows you who can make the best reads, but it doesn't show who can do it the best under pressure (both mental pressure of the game and the physical pressure of the pass rush) or against a non-scout D (teammates). Yeah, if one quarterback competes 9/10 while the other throws three interceptions (or one wrestler tech falls the other) you might know something (but nothing you shouldn't have already known). Anything short of that, I think there are much better ways for a coach to evaluate the situation and determine the best possible line-up. Wrestle-offs can be sort of a cop-out for coaches (see below) who don't want to take heat for making tough decisions and/or aren't confident in their own judgement.

Why would I want my starter sloughing off in practice, since he knows he can win in a wrestle-off over his back-up?

Why would I want my starter avoiding wrestling with his back-up (or not practicing his go-to moves against him) in practice, because he doesn't want his back-up to learn his stuff and/or get better?

I only do the "show" of a wrestle-off when I want to put an underclassman in the line-up over a senior (Me copping-out to avoid heat/ giving the senior closure); otherwise, I tell the team every warm-up, every drill, every live go, every sprint, every time I tell them to wash the mats, is a wrestle-off. If I'm not certain of whom I want to start, as a last resort, I will watch one of their 2-2-2's in a practice without telling them and keep score in my head (They already know everything in practice could be a wrestle-off, so they better be going hard or risk losing their spot). I'd rather have that competition in the room every day, not just every couple of weeks in a wrestle-off.

(Not to mention the friction between teammates, extra weight-cuts, lost practice time, etc. that I've found come with wrestle-offs.)

I have never heard this perspective before and you make many great points. The only problem I have with it is the favoritism I see in many other sports where there is definitely subjective decisions made, wrestling/track/swimming/golf were sports that could avoid that as a poster above said No subjectivity.  No Favoritism. It sounds like you do use that thinking at times where it could like favoritism (underclassman vs Senior) and in most cases we can all tell who the better wrestler is.

[Wisconsin Wrestling Fan]

Going with the quarterback analogy that Ty mentioned, each of the 10 weight classes are like picking a starting quarterback, especially in Division I. Sometimes it is clear who the starter should be, sometimes it is not.  A competition against other teams many times determines the starter. You need to find out who does the best against outside competition.

Overall, I think I like wrestle-offs in high school, but probably lean toward no wrestle-offs in college (at Division I in particular) and use the open tournaments to determine the starter. If they are still close, then have a wrestle-off.

I also seen cases where wrestle-offs are ignored, and the winner of the wrestle-off does not get the varsity spot.  That can create a controversy as well.

[DocWrestling]

I can see your points and can see the difficulties in college at times.  I don't like the QB analogy because it is not head to head.

Again you can have wrestle offs and use them for 9 out of 10 spots but maybe not one of the spots.  The number of times that the best wrestler does not win the wrestle off is minimal at high school level and only a little more common maybe in college.

You don't abandon wrestle offs in my mind for a rare instance where the best wrestler maybe does not win and even then it is the coaches perogative to choose what wrestler takes the mat.

Tournaments are just as random.  You can take college open tournaments and wrestle the same wrestlers every weekend and you will get differing results based on draw, injuries, results, etc.

[wrastle63]

I agree with Ty. It's hard to give a wrestler a slot just because they win 1 match. I view the whole season as a wrestle off. Does he put in the effort, whose winning during live goes, etc.

[aarons23]

I agree with Ty. It's hard to give a wrestler a slot just because they win 1 match. I view the whole season as a wrestle off. Does he put in the effort, whose winning during live goes, etc.

I don't think anyone meant that 1 wrestle off guaranteed a spot all season.  I do think wrestle offs are important and takes the politics out of the sport.

[OneEyedFatMan]

I agree with Ty. It's hard to give a wrestler a slot just because they win 1 match. I view the whole season as a wrestle off. Does he put in the effort, whose winning during live goes, etc.

I don't think anyone meant that 1 wrestle off guaranteed a spot all season.  I do think wrestle offs are important and takes the politics out of the sport.

Agreed. And if its a horse apiece, you have to wrestle-off for the sake of team morale. If the team knows that the coach is just going to pick anyway, it becomes just one more nail in the coffin.

[Barou]

I agree with Ty. It's hard to give a wrestler a slot just because they win 1 match. I view the whole season as a wrestle off. Does he put in the effort, whose winning during live goes, etc.

I don't think anyone meant that 1 wrestle off guaranteed a spot all season.  I do think wrestle offs are important and takes the politics out of the sport.

Agreed. And if its a horse apiece, you have to wrestle-off for the sake of team morale. If the team knows that the coach is just going to pick anyway, it becomes just one more nail in the coffin.

Agree.  Wrestle-offs should be a part of the process. 

[MarkK]

I've watched people throw the shot put.  In practice they are amazing.  Somehow under pressure the toe board becomes a real issue.  It happens.  I think it happens with wrestling too.  However, by the time someone is in college that is either revealed or it will never go away.   As the guy who hasn 't secured the spot, I had better want a wrestle off or work my but off in a tournament.  Either way you if you know that is the determining factor you make the most of it.  Plain and simple you earn the spot one way or another.  As long as it's known ahead of time make no mistake about where you shine.  I can live with either one as long as the whole season is a testing grounds.

[wrastle63]

Agreed as long as it is who is wrestling better. For example if at the open tournaments wrestler A takes 2 and second and wrestler B takes fourth and fifth then wrestler A is varsity even if B beats A head to head. If you can follow my thinking....haha

[stp]

bring in a couple of the football or even the basketball guys to coach? How entertaining would that be?

About as exciting as Barry Davis attempting to coach basketball or football.  In other words, not entertaining at all.    

What "coaching" do you expect football or basketball guys to bring to wrestling?  

Wouldn't be about the coaching, obviously.  It would be about the fanfare, having the wrestling crowd and student-athletes get to interact with big time athletes of other Badger powerhouses, and be a real positive setting for badger fans.  With wrestling being very under appreciated in almost every college nationwide, programs need to consistently think outside the box if they want to appeal to many fans, and not just the wrestling faithful.

I doubt Nigel or Corey Clement will be shouting technique  

I understand the concept, just disagree with using coaches.   One event I've heard of done at a larger HS in Columbus is called the "Beauty and the Beast" which is an event showcasing wrestling and gymnastics in the same gym, simultaneously.

[empty99]

Like this discussion on wrestle offs. In highschool I seem to remember quite a few of these, and the result was pretty predictable. I felt the better wrestler usually won. In college, there were guys that were great practice wrestlers, but couldn't perform under the lights. Kyle and Jordy... Now as a HS coach, I do allow wrestle offs occasionally, but I want the discretion to pick the best competitor.

[Wisconsin Wrestling Fan]

I can see your points and can see the difficulties in college at times.  I don't like the QB analogy because it is not head to head.

Again you can have wrestle offs and use them for 9 out of 10 spots but maybe not one of the spots.  The number of times that the best wrestler does not win the wrestle off is minimal at high school level and only a little more common maybe in college.

You don't abandon wrestle offs in my mind for a rare instance where the best wrestler maybe does not win and even then it is the coaches perogative to choose what wrestler takes the mat.

Tournaments are just as random.  You can take college open tournaments and wrestle the same wrestlers every weekend and you will get differing results based on draw, injuries, results, etc.

You do make a good point on some of these open tournaments, especially larger ones, whoever gets a better draw can have the advantage of placing higher.  Eventually, if two wrestlers are close, wrestle-offs may be needed, which the Badgers mentioned in the original statement - "That doesn't mean that a wrestle-off later in the year couldn't happen."