Dake vs Taylor

[whatever]

As for Dake vs. Taylor, it seems to me that many people's definition of stalling is probably influenced by who they wanted to win that match.  If you were rooting for Taylor, then you probably thought Dake was stalling.  If you were rooting for Dake, you would probably that was good solid wrestling on Dake's part.

Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with how Dake controlled Taylor from the top position.  First of all, it's not like Dake was droppping down to a leg everytime Taylor stood up.  I see that happen WAY too often for my taste but Dake did no such thing.  In fact, with Dake riding that half nelson and picking Taylor up and slamming him to the mat, it seems the real blame ought to be laid on David Taylor for not being a better wrestler from the bottom position.  

Conversely, for all of Taylor's prowess from the top position, it seems Dake never considered Taylor a threat on top and had absolutely no problem escaping from Taylor.

[bigoil]

Plus 1 on that whatever and I was rooting for Taylor.

[brotherofagoodwrestler]

  At the Southern Scuffle, I wasn't sure the best wrestler won the Dake - Taylor match (and I'm a huge David Taylor fan so my judgement might be clouded).  Saturday night when Taylor took Dake down early in the first period I jumped off my couch (knowing these wrestlers defensive and scrambling abilities thought this was the deciding take down).  And then it happened, Dake man-handled Taylor.  There was no doubt in my mind the best wrestler won the 165 lb NCAA Championship. Having not seen Kyle Dake that often, I was shocked at how much more physical he was than Taylor. 

As far as the shot at Tony Nelson, I totally disagree.  He's as offensive as 90% of all HEAVYWEIGHTS. Gelogaev takes him down twice in the first period and goes out to a 4-1 lead and yet Nelson gets a takedown in the third and rides him out the last 46seconds for the win in their semi-finals match. Nelson's advantage over most heavyweights is knowing he'll escape in about 8 seconds from the bottom. Also he knows if the opponent chooses down he'll likely get a riding point. Does this make him less likely to take a hurried or untimely shot..absolutely. Does this force his opponents into being more aggressive on their feet than they normally would be...absolutely. Not sure any of the Minnesota coaches ever expect a major decision or pin out of him in a dual, but bet they are happy they can book a "W" for three every time.
Although I watched the NCAA's live, I also DVR'd them for later enjoyment. All the credit goes to my son for setting it to a later time! YEAH KID!

[imnofish]

As for Dake vs. Taylor, it seems to me that many people's definition of stalling is probably influenced by who they wanted to win that match.  If you were rooting for Taylor, then you probably thought Dake was stalling.  If you were rooting for Dake, you would probably that was good solid wrestling on Dake's part.

Personally, I didn't see anything wrong with how Dake controlled Taylor from the top position.  First of all, it's not like Dake was droppping down to a leg everytime Taylor stood up.  I see that happen WAY too often for my taste but Dake did no such thing.  In fact, with Dake riding that half nelson and picking Taylor up and slamming him to the mat, it seems the real blame ought to be laid on David Taylor for not being a better wrestler from the bottom position.  

Conversely, for all of Taylor's prowess from the top position, it seems Dake never considered Taylor a threat on top and had absolutely no problem escaping from Taylor.

Personally, I did not have a favorite going into this match, but I saw it the same way you did.  When you see two guys this good go head-to-head, it's almost a shame that someone has to lose. 

[dman]

Howe won in freestyle, NO way he beats Dake in folk style.

Ummm....what??  Coocoo....coocoo!  I love how people disregard certain wrestlers when they haven't seen them wrestle in awhile.  People always think the guy they like improves and no one else does.  Howe does not lose to Dake.....period.  Good match, but Howe beats him no matter what style it is.....he is a world class athlete.....Dake is on top of the NCAA wrestling world right now and I love the way he wrestles but he is no Andrew Howe.

Dman when's the last time you seen Howe wrestle then since you know for a fact he is better then Dake! To say that Dake is not a world class athlete is just foolish to say!

Hmmm....last time I saw Howe wrestle....oh yeah...the olympic trials where he man handled Taylor.  He didn't get to wrestle Dake cause Dake lost to Paulson who then had to face Howe in the challenge finals.  And then saw Howe give Jordan Buroughs all he could handle before getting hurt.  Oh and there was the 2011 World Team trials where again, Howe made the challenge finals and won and Dake lost twice.

I am a huge Dake fan, but to say he is better than Howe.....based on what??

[My2sense]

I think it would be  based on opinion. Fact is settled on the mat.

[imnofish]

I think it would be  based on opinion. Fact is settled on the mat.

Ain't that the truth! 

[dman]

Already has been settled on the mat.....Howe has beat Dake twice now, and has never lost.

[hammen]

Already has been settled on the mat.....Howe has beat Dake twice now, and has never lost.

Lots of progress. I'm a fan of both. Andrew is still battling injuries. I was told during Big Tens from a friend of his that he is still banged up, which is limiting his mat time. That has to be difficult for him to maintain the progress he had going into the Trials last year. I don't think the margin of victories was big, and I would expect a similar bout if Andrew can wrestle come the US Open. Really hope these two go at it. It would be great for wrestling, and I'm sure a lot of people will be rooting for Dake to see a Burroughs/Dake match-up.

[dman]

Already has been settled on the mat.....Howe has beat Dake twice now, and has never lost.

Lots of progress. I'm a fan of both. Andrew is still battling injuries. I was told during Big Tens from a friend of his that he is still banged up, which is limiting his mat time. That has to be difficult for him to maintain the progress he had going into the Trials last year. I don't think the margin of victories was big, and I would expect a similar bout if Andrew can wrestle come the US Open. Really hope these two go at it. It would be great for wrestling, and I'm sure a lot of people will be rooting for Dake to see a Burroughs/Dake match-up.

Oh be quite hammen....you don't know what you are talking about!! Ha! Love you!   

[badgers]

Howe won in freestyle, NO way he beats Dake in folk style.

Ummm....what??  Coocoo....coocoo!  I love how people disregard certain wrestlers when they haven't seen them wrestle in awhile.  People always think the guy they like improves and no one else does.  Howe does not lose to Dake.....period.  Good match, but Howe beats him no matter what style it is.....he is a world class athlete.....Dake is on top of the NCAA wrestling world right now and I love the way he wrestles but he is no Andrew Howe.

Dman when's the last time you seen Howe wrestle then since you know for a fact he is better then Dake! To say that Dake is not a world class athlete is just foolish to say!

Hmmm....last time I saw Howe wrestle....oh yeah...the olympic trials where he man handled Taylor.  He didn't get to wrestle Dake cause Dake lost to Paulson who then had to face Howe in the challenge finals.  And then saw Howe give Jordan Buroughs all he could handle before getting hurt.  Oh and there was the 2011 World Team trials where again, Howe made the challenge finals and won and Dake lost twice.

I am a huge Dake fan, but to say he is better than Howe.....based on what??

Oh yeah.... the last time was year ago and the last time we seen Dake wrestle was THREE days ago! It doesn't matter that Howe made it farther in the trials then Dake did! It's all about match-ups! Plus they never wrestle is folkstyle so how can you say Howe is better? And Howe has been hurt for a year so to go out and say that Howe would win hands down is foolish! They would split if they wrestled 10 times! I'm a huge fan of both too but to go out there and say Howe would win any style and time is foolish! But you can keep living the past on your 2011 and 2012 stats!

[jeast]

This really should be a completely different post, but the best way to get rid of the issue of riding time vs. stalling is to get rid of folkstyle and let them wrestle freestyle in college (high school too for that matter), but I digress   I thought Dake should have got hit for stalling earlier and more often.  The drama of what could be achieved by either wrestle with a win was compelling, the match itself was not a great match .  Now let us hear some commentary about how I must not know anything about wrestling.

AgedinOak, you don't know wrestling!   
Actually got into an argument with a guy in the Sportspage that sits on the end of the bar, everyday, all day...anyway, he thought the match was boring and they were both stalling.  I told him to stand up, let me tie up with him and see how long it took for him to hit the floor face first.  He declined.  I told him that isn't stalling then.  HA!  I thought it was extemely intense.  Very well wrestled and yes, stalling is a part of wrestling.  I think the rules verify that.  1 pt after the first warning, no chance of DQing for stalling.  You get the lead in a huge match like that and believe me, you find a way to win without putting yourself in jeopardy or your lead in jeopardy.  That's smart.  Too bad non fans of the sport are turned off by it.  Why would we care what non fans think?  (you didn't say that oak, but others on here have).  I know good wrestling when I see it and that was a great match. You know good wrestling too.  I know you do. 

As to Howe?  Who cares?  Howe who?  Really.   

[dman]

Howe won in freestyle, NO way he beats Dake in folk style.

Ummm....what??  Coocoo....coocoo!  I love how people disregard certain wrestlers when they haven't seen them wrestle in awhile.  People always think the guy they like improves and no one else does.  Howe does not lose to Dake.....period.  Good match, but Howe beats him no matter what style it is.....he is a world class athlete.....Dake is on top of the NCAA wrestling world right now and I love the way he wrestles but he is no Andrew Howe.

Dman when's the last time you seen Howe wrestle then since you know for a fact he is better then Dake! To say that Dake is not a world class athlete is just foolish to say!

Hmmm....last time I saw Howe wrestle....oh yeah...the olympic trials where he man handled Taylor.  He didn't get to wrestle Dake cause Dake lost to Paulson who then had to face Howe in the challenge finals.  And then saw Howe give Jordan Buroughs all he could handle before getting hurt.  Oh and there was the 2011 World Team trials where again, Howe made the challenge finals and won and Dake lost twice.

I am a huge Dake fan, but to say he is better than Howe.....based on what??

Oh yeah.... the last time was year ago and the last time we seen Dake wrestle was THREE days ago! It doesn't matter that Howe made it farther in the trials then Dake did! It's all about match-ups! Plus they never wrestle is folkstyle so how can you say Howe is better? And Howe has been hurt for a year so to go out and say that Howe would win hands down is foolish! They would split if they wrestled 10 times! I'm a huge fan of both too but to go out there and say Howe would win any style and time is foolish! But you can keep living the past on your 2011 and 2012 stats!

Phew....glad I have your support to keep living the past on actual facts and stats.....my day is complete.   

[thequad]

Stalling is always a difficult call. But one thing I feel is not considered enough in a match is when a wrestler has earned a lead, he should get more lenience. Just because he was more aggressive to earn the lead.

[MNbadger]

One of my biggest peeves in wrestling is that stalling calls are affected by the score.  Stalling is stalling is stalling.  It shouldn't matter if you have the lead or are behind.