Update Coaching Contact Rules WWCA/WIAA

New School · April 29, 2024, 04:07:53 PM

The WWCA and the WIAA should update coaching contact rules and eliminate restrictions on optional off-season coaching.

Why would we limit or restrict the ability of a coach that wants to make themselves available and put in time over the summer with their team? Clubs like Crass, AWA, Ringers and others are great for the sport but not every family has the resources to send their kids. Could someone help me understand the harm here especially if the workouts are optional?

DocWrestling · April 29, 2024, 07:11:04 PM

The rule penalizes those coaches that want to put in extra time with the kids and protects those that do not want to coach out of season. Many coaches vote against unlimited contact because they don't want to look bad when compared with a neighboring community.

In reality though a team with a motivated teacher could work with kids all summer while maybe other non-teachers have to work all summer and cannot offer the same experiences. The coaching contact rules make it more of a level playing field but still the rule is broken over and over in all sports.

Besides protecting coaches it protects the kids. Coaches could put a lot of pressure on kids that they need to do all offseason workouts. Without the coach it is more obvious that practices are optional.

Unlimited coaching contact could lead to year round sport expectations for all. In reality that is almost kind of the case already in basketball, hockey, football, soccer, etc.

panther93 · May 01, 2024, 12:02:31 PM

I believe that the only way to change things is to have the WIAA consider Freestyle and Greco as different sports. In reality they are as the scoring system is totally different and so is the strategy of the matches. In many areas the only people qualified or that have the knowledge to coach this would be the HS staff. Yes clubs have sprung up and are doing better than ever, yet not all can attend them.

I always feel for kids that are at the state tournament or Northern Plains and don't have a coach, or those that decide to not go as they don't practice due to not having a coach or club.

I am lucky that I have the funds to pay for my son to attend a club and also have the ability to coach my son on top of that. I know however that there are and have been athletes in the past that have chosen to not wrestle in the off-season due to lack of funds. It is really hard for me to sit back in the stands and watch one of my HS athletes compete out on the mat alone while also seeing great club coaches in the other corner, yet due to rules I have to.

Addition: I'll also add the athletes that are out for spring sports that don't have time to wrestle club, yet want to let it fly in a tournament or two.

DocWrestling · May 01, 2024, 01:45:36 PM

Good points. Wrestling should have expanded contact as other sports have certainly allowed expanded contact. High school baseball coaches are now allowed to coach summer legion baseball teams

crossface21 · May 01, 2024, 08:59:07 PM

Quote from: panther93 on May 01, 2024, 12:02:31 PMI believe that the only way to change things is to have the WIAA consider Freestyle and Greco as different sports. In reality they are as the scoring system is totally different and so is the strategy of the matches. In many areas the only people qualified or that have the knowledge to coach this would be the HS staff. Yes clubs have sprung up and are doing better than ever, yet not all can attend them.

I always feel for kids that are at the state tournament or Northern Plains and don't have a coach, or those that decide to not go as they don't practice due to not having a coach or club.

I am lucky that I have the funds to pay for my son to attend a club and also have the ability to coach my son on top of that. I know however that there are and have been athletes in the past that have chosen to not wrestle in the off-season due to lack of funds. It is really hard for me to sit back in the stands and watch one of my HS athletes compete out on the mat alone while also seeing great club coaches in the other corner, yet due to rules I have to.

Addition: I'll also add the athletes that are out for spring sports that don't have time to wrestle club, yet want to let it fly in a tournament or two.

This was recently asked by the WWCA in a survey to all coaches to see what membership wanted as far as trying to get clarification of Greco/Freestyle being considered a different sport.

panther93 · May 02, 2024, 10:17:33 AM

Quote from: crossface21 on May 01, 2024, 08:59:07 PM
Quote from: panther93 on May 01, 2024, 12:02:31 PMI believe that the only way to change things is to have the WIAA consider Freestyle and Greco as different sports. In reality they are as the scoring system is totally different and so is the strategy of the matches. In many areas the only people qualified or that have the knowledge to coach this would be the HS staff. Yes clubs have sprung up and are doing better than ever, yet not all can attend them.

I always feel for kids that are at the state tournament or Northern Plains and don't have a coach, or those that decide to not go as they don't practice due to not having a coach or club.

I am lucky that I have the funds to pay for my son to attend a club and also have the ability to coach my son on top of that. I know however that there are and have been athletes in the past that have chosen to not wrestle in the off-season due to lack of funds. It is really hard for me to sit back in the stands and watch one of my HS athletes compete out on the mat alone while also seeing great club coaches in the other corner, yet due to rules I have to.

Addition: I'll also add the athletes that are out for spring sports that don't have time to wrestle club, yet want to let it fly in a tournament or two.

This was recently asked by the WWCA in a survey to all coaches to see what membership wanted as far as trying to get clarification of Greco/Freestyle being considered a different sport.

Yep, I was a YES vote on that. The WWCA is trying to be proactive on this issue.

MTA · May 03, 2024, 11:59:02 AM

Quote from: New School on April 29, 2024, 04:07:53 PMThe WWCA and the WIAA should update coaching contact rules and eliminate restrictions on optional off-season coaching.

Why would we limit or restrict the ability of a coach that wants to make themselves available and put in time over the summer with their team? Clubs like Crass, AWA, Ringers and others are great for the sport but not every family has the resources to send their kids. Could someone help me understand the harm here especially if the workouts are optional?

I am in total agreement!

145Firemanscarry · May 04, 2024, 07:05:46 AM

My 2 cents:

To basically circumvent current rules in place that protect coaches and student/athletes from the "more, more, more" mentality and say that Greco & Freestyle is different , I believe is irresponsible.

As a high school coach of 30 years that had wrestlers consistently qualify and place at the State tournament, I have a different view regarding that some coaches vote against the idea of having more contact time - and it's not because they "don't want to look bad" compared to neighboring communities.

I contend that maybe some coaches are capable of getting great results in the time that they work with their wrestlers from Nov - March. And in reality, if you're not able to move the needle with regard to in-season success during that time, then maybe you need to look in the mirror and reassess what and how you're doing business.

I also believe there is value, which I saw through the years with some of our wrestlers, in the Greco/Freestyle wrestling. However , instead of being in the practice room in the Spring/Summer, rely on your in-home club to deliver the coaching, practice , strategy, etc.... This allows your high school coaching staff to get the natural time-away break from their athletes as well as the athletes getting a break from their coaches. That's a good thing!! And, the kids are still getting exposure to the positive benefits of what Greco/Freestyle wrestling offers.

More time together with their high school athletes is a slippery slope. I believe it puts undo pressure on the athlete to do "more" and that's not a good thing. It's ok to tell kids to take a break, be a kid, enjoy/experience other things than wrestling. We'll get together again in Nov. and work hard through March!

Again , this is my view, but it's based on high-level success through the years. And, success was achieved through not only hard work in the practice room, but also by teaching our athletes the value of being a good team mate, good student, being ethical , not taking short cuts, etc...core value type of things. You can do all of this from Nov - March and have your wrestlers reap the benefits..."more" time together is not the simple answer nor is it the "right" answer from where I stand.

Respectfully,

Success without "more"

crossface21 · May 04, 2024, 04:58:46 PM

Quote from: 145Firemanscarry on May 04, 2024, 07:05:46 AMMy 2 cents:

To basically circumvent current rules in place that protect coaches and student/athletes from the "more, more, more" mentality and say that Greco & Freestyle is different , I believe is irresponsible.

As a high school coach of 30 years that had wrestlers consistently qualify and place at the State tournament, I have a different view regarding that some coaches vote against the idea of having more contact time - and it's not because they "don't want to look bad" compared to neighboring communities.

I contend that maybe some coaches are capable of getting great results in the time that they work with their wrestlers from Nov - March. And in reality, if you're not able to move the needle with regard to in-season success during that time, then maybe you need to look in the mirror and reassess what and how you're doing business.

I also believe there is value, which I saw through the years with some of our wrestlers, in the Greco/Freestyle wrestling. However , instead of being in the practice room in the Spring/Summer, rely on your in-home club to deliver the coaching, practice , strategy, etc.... This allows your high school coaching staff to get the natural time-away break from their athletes as well as the athletes getting a break from their coaches. That's a good thing!! And, the kids are still getting exposure to the positive benefits of what Greco/Freestyle wrestling offers.

More time together with their high school athletes is a slippery slope. I believe it puts undo pressure on the athlete to do "more" and that's not a good thing. It's ok to tell kids to take a break, be a kid, enjoy/experience other things than wrestling. We'll get together again in Nov. and work hard through March!

Again , this is my view, but it's based on high-level success through the years. And, success was achieved through not only hard work in the practice room, but also by teaching our athletes the value of being a good team mate, good student, being ethical , not taking short cuts, etc...core value type of things. You can do all of this from Nov - March and have your wrestlers reap the benefits..."more" time together is not the simple answer nor is it the "right" answer from where I stand.

Respectfully,

Success without "more"

I don't disagree with what you said. However, with the proliferation of the wrestling schools in the last 10 years and the amount of kids that go to these schools make it much tougher to be successful only going from Nov-March. Wrestling from Nov-Mar will be great for kids looking to just fill out the lineup, but the majority will not advance past Sectionals and if they do, probably won't have much success in Madison. I tell our kids that I totally support them to do other activities because I think that's great. But also, we don't have kids that can afford the schools or the means to even get to them if they somehow can afford them. I want them doing other sports so they aren't just sitting around until next season.

MTA · May 07, 2024, 12:46:05 PM

Quote from: 145Firemanscarry on May 04, 2024, 07:05:46 AMMy 2 cents:

To basically circumvent current rules in place that protect coaches and student/athletes from the "more, more, more" mentality and say that Greco & Freestyle is different , I believe is irresponsible.

As a high school coach of 30 years that had wrestlers consistently qualify and place at the State tournament, I have a different view regarding that some coaches vote against the idea of having more contact time - and it's not because they "don't want to look bad" compared to neighboring communities.

I contend that maybe some coaches are capable of getting great results in the time that they work with their wrestlers from Nov - March. And in reality, if you're not able to move the needle with regard to in-season success during that time, then maybe you need to look in the mirror and reassess what and how you're doing business.

I also believe there is value, which I saw through the years with some of our wrestlers, in the Greco/Freestyle wrestling. However , instead of being in the practice room in the Spring/Summer, rely on your in-home club to deliver the coaching, practice , strategy, etc.... This allows your high school coaching staff to get the natural time-away break from their athletes as well as the athletes getting a break from their coaches. That's a good thing!! And, the kids are still getting exposure to the positive benefits of what Greco/Freestyle wrestling offers.

More time together with their high school athletes is a slippery slope. I believe it puts undo pressure on the athlete to do "more" and that's not a good thing. It's ok to tell kids to take a break, be a kid, enjoy/experience other things than wrestling. We'll get together again in Nov. and work hard through March!

Again , this is my view, but it's based on high-level success through the years. And, success was achieved through not only hard work in the practice room, but also by teaching our athletes the value of being a good team mate, good student, being ethical , not taking short cuts, etc...core value type of things. You can do all of this from Nov - March and have your wrestlers reap the benefits..."more" time together is not the simple answer nor is it the "right" answer from where I stand.

Respectfully,

Success without "more"

Excellent points. My only question is how would you revise and/or reconcile this when your HS coaching staff is directly involved with the "in-home club"?

Scramble_king · May 08, 2024, 01:24:26 PM

What are the rules on high school coaches coaching their athletes at freestyle Greco state? I thought this was against the WIAA rules. Are some coaches just ignoring it, or have the rules changed?

I saw multiple high school coaches coaching last weekend.

Chiefs123 · May 08, 2024, 02:09:11 PM

Quote from: Scramble_king on May 08, 2024, 01:24:26 PMWhat are the rules on high school coaches coaching their athletes at freestyle Greco state? I thought this was against the WIAA rules. Are some coaches just ignoring it, or have the rules changed?

I saw multiple high school coaches coaching last weekend.

Per my interpretation, High School Coaches are allowed to coach individuals at their school who are in grades K-8. High School Coaches are not allowed to coach their athletes outside of their season during the school year.

panther93 · May 09, 2024, 11:38:38 AM

As a HS coach I had to sit back and watch three of my wrestlers as a fan due to the rules. I was able to coach my son and another wrestler who is a senior. These rules are stupid, IMHO. I understand the intent, but with freestyle and greco having their season in full swing during the school year makes this really hard on our sport.

bulldog24 · May 09, 2024, 12:05:13 PM

Quote from: panther93 on May 09, 2024, 11:38:38 AMAs a HS coach I had to sit back and watch three of my wrestlers as a fan due to the rules. I was able to coach my son and another wrestler who is a senior. These rules are stupid, IMHO. I understand the intent, but with freestyle and greco having their season in full swing during the school year makes this really hard on our sport.

I agree 100%! The rule is stupid, and I was in the same boat as you. It is extremely frustrating watching one of your wrestlers out there on the mat wrestling, and they can't have a coach in their corner, while their opponent has their club coach.

21Headlocks · May 09, 2024, 01:32:21 PM

Quote from: 145Firemanscarry on May 04, 2024, 07:05:46 AMMy 2 cents:

To basically circumvent current rules in place that protect coaches and student/athletes from the "more, more, more" mentality and say that Greco & Freestyle is different , I believe is irresponsible.

As a high school coach of 30 years that had wrestlers consistently qualify and place at the State tournament, I have a different view regarding that some coaches vote against the idea of having more contact time - and it's not because they "don't want to look bad" compared to neighboring communities.

I contend that maybe some coaches are capable of getting great results in the time that they work with their wrestlers from Nov - March. And in reality, if you're not able to move the needle with regard to in-season success during that time, then maybe you need to look in the mirror and reassess what and how you're doing business.

I also believe there is value, which I saw through the years with some of our wrestlers, in the Greco/Freestyle wrestling. However , instead of being in the practice room in the Spring/Summer, rely on your in-home club to deliver the coaching, practice , strategy, etc.... This allows your high school coaching staff to get the natural time-away break from their athletes as well as the athletes getting a break from their coaches. That's a good thing!! And, the kids are still getting exposure to the positive benefits of what Greco/Freestyle wrestling offers.

More time together with their high school athletes is a slippery slope. I believe it puts undo pressure on the athlete to do "more" and that's not a good thing. It's ok to tell kids to take a break, be a kid, enjoy/experience other things than wrestling. We'll get together again in Nov. and work hard through March!

Again , this is my view, but it's based on high-level success through the years. And, success was achieved through not only hard work in the practice room, but also by teaching our athletes the value of being a good team mate, good student, being ethical , not taking short cuts, etc...core value type of things. You can do all of this from Nov - March and have your wrestlers reap the benefits..."more" time together is not the simple answer nor is it the "right" answer from where I stand.

Respectfully,

Success without "more"

I completely agree with this. I saw quite a few HS coaches coaching at various Greco/Freestyle events this year. You need to have rules against HS coaches doing this so these athletes can thrive in other sports and have that balance in the non-contact months. Most Greco/Freestyle wrestlers have connections outside of their HS coaches to work on those which should be considered their own season. I understand some kids may not have the resources to go to these training facilities but that's where local wrestling clubs should step in, NOT HS COACHES. It's unfair to the coaches that follow the contact rules, especially since there seems to be a correlation with the HS coaches I saw not having much success in their respective schools. Just my two cents. I agree the WIAA needs to clarify/redefine the rules around it.