Olympic freestyle

DocWrestling · August 18, 2016, 03:12:10 PM

I really like the push out rule. Really forces wrestlers to stay in middle and very little stop in action. I think it would be a good thing in high school.

The shot clock is silly and rather than promote action it just puts the wrestler that is not on the clock in a defensive posture for the 30 seconds and I have only seen the offensive wrestler score once while on the clock.

bigG · August 19, 2016, 10:32:21 AM

I can agree, mostly. Just worry that push-out can turn our sport into more Sumo wrestling. Still, it does promote more action. Shot clock, I think, is silly, too. How many times do you see guys take little safe shots when trying to show the ref they are trying to score? You'd just see a million safe shots with a shot clock, IMHO.

DocWrestling · August 19, 2016, 11:02:51 AM

I think the push out rule would be treated like sumo wrestling for about a year and then I think all wrestlers will just get in the habit of circling. These are big dudes wrestling and there are very few times they go out of bounds which is so different than high school and college wrestling.

More scoring excites the fans and more scoring usually initiates even more action.

MNbadger · August 19, 2016, 01:05:32 PM

I do not like the push out rule. It is not wrestling.

DocWrestling · August 19, 2016, 02:00:51 PM

Quote from: MNbadger on August 19, 2016, 01:05:32 PM
I do not like the push out rule. It is not wrestling.

neither is wrestling on the edge and guys never able to finish because they go out of bounds. Now you can reward the active wrestler.

Or my other idea is to give one point to the offensive wrestler than initiates action that ends in a stalemate.

Too many wrestlers wrestle to get out of bounds or to get into a stalemate to avoid being scored on and is limiting action and causes tons of stops and starts with bringing wrestlers back to the center

MNbadger · August 19, 2016, 06:00:13 PM

I disagree with your first sentence.
Your second point would encourage someone to grab a leg and just hang on for the point so it would not really make for more offense I don't thonk.
I agree with your last statement but the referee could call that (like they used to do).

MarkK · August 23, 2016, 09:08:04 AM

I like the push out rule. It is much easier to call than a stalling. It keeps the person on the edge working.

OneEyedFatMan · August 23, 2016, 12:26:23 PM

Stalling is a simple call for a referee, if that referee has ever wrestled.

Not improving position, hanging on, avoiding wrestling, half-inappropriate term15 attempts.....if the ref isn't calling it, then shame on him and shame on the coaches for complaining about stall calls.

Push-outs- really? Because a bully-staller can just shove and shove without attempting an actual scoring manuever and win a match- is that what we've come to?

TeamJ · August 23, 2016, 12:30:09 PM

I like the push out rule.

Here's my rule change--When Wrestler X is on the clock for passivity, wrestler Y can also be put on a clock for passivity. Meaning instead of watching 30 seconds of one wrestler trying and another being defensive, it could actually encourage both to be offensive, and it lessens the importance of a point. Too many matches of wrestler warned at 40 seconds, put on the clock at 1:45, and then the period ends 1-0.

bigG · August 23, 2016, 03:00:05 PM

Quote from: OneEyedFatMan on August 23, 2016, 12:26:23 PM
Stalling is a simple call for a referee, if that referee has ever wrestled.

Not improving position, hanging on, avoiding wrestling, half-butt attempts.....if the ref isn't calling it, then shame on him and shame on the coaches for complaining about stall calls.

Push-outs- really? Because a bully-staller can just shove and shove without attempting an actual scoring manuever and win a match- is that what we've come to?

This is why I'm a little tepid on push out. I've seen it both ways. You get the hyper match with guys in the future and circling and it's action packed. I've also seen the "just move forward and trap for a push out" matches. I think it creates more action. But, if the action it creates is basic Sumo....mmmm...not as much.

bman · August 23, 2016, 09:02:33 PM

What? The pushout rule may lead to activity similar to sumo wrestling.... A bully can just push and shove people out...
What? How many times did the Olympic freestyle matches look like sumo, or a bully just shoving people? Learning how to circle is a valuable wrestling skill anyway. In Greco a literal push or shove out of bounds does not result in a point being awarded, because that is not a wrestling maneuver. You could certainly tweak the rule to add that in folkstyle. The best thing they could do for folkstyle wrestling is to have the pushout rule. If it had been in place a few years ago I bet Jesse Delgado fails to win an NCAA title.

MNbadger · August 23, 2016, 11:38:12 PM

Pushing out is not wrestling.

billymurphy · August 24, 2016, 02:12:30 AM

When a wrestle takes a hop back and then another hop back to put his
feet on the outside lines of the circle, the ref almost never calls it.
I screamed my head off at the ref to call it but he let it go on over and over.
The push out rule is necessary as it prevents this type cheating.

MNbadger · August 24, 2016, 02:01:19 PM

Honestly, I rarely see this happen (a wrestler hopping back like you described). I see WAY more stalling on top in both HS and collegiate wrestling.
I also dislike seeing a wrestler sprawl and get called for stalling. Sprawling is one of the first techniques we teach beginning wrestlers. It is a legitimate technique rather than just pushing.

OneEyedFatMan · August 24, 2016, 03:22:23 PM

It really IS on the refs to call the match according to the letter and spirit of the rules.

Wouldn't hurt if they DQ'd a few here and there to send a message.
Scott Trizzino of Iowa got DQ'd in the semis of the NCAAs 1978 against Andy Rein, came storming back to take 3rd by scoring 17 and 11 points in the next two matches. I guess he WAS capable of pressing the action. It took a ref with testes to bring the best out in Trizzino.

In 1979, his teammate Bud Palmer got DQ'd in the NCAA finals vs Mark Lieberman of Lehigh. I was there for the match and he deserved it. Everyone in the place except the Iowa fans applauded the decision.

One (ha) of my big failures as a former WIAA ref was to not caution out both wrestlers in a heavyweight snore-fest of a conference tournament about 15 years ago or so. The other refs and coaches sided up to me and said I did the right thing....but I just self-loathed.

Stalling just kills fan interest, and quite frankly, is dis-interesting me in the sport. Its bad enough that there's the pansy rule, figure fours on the head are gone, and this blood phobia.

If we don't respect the sport for what its supposed to be, then we play to the lowest common denominator. Its not supposed to be an intramural game.

Quote from: billymurphy on August 24, 2016, 02:12:30 AM
When a wrestle takes a hop back and then another hop back to put his
feet on the outside lines of the circle, the ref almost never calls it.
I screamed my head off at the ref to call it but he let it go on over and over.
The push out rule is necessary as it prevents this type cheating.