Further discussion on whether their should be a uniform option vs. Singlet

[ramjet]

Listen there is solid arguments both ways but those in favor of the singlet have made good case. Just because they are not going 100% with you two does not mean they are wrong or old fashion or even unfair. We just see it differently based on experience but I say show the data and Whatever says nobody will consider it. That is just not tire we all want higher participation but are skeptical if unform changes will have a very high impact or even any impact in high school.

[whatever]

Ramjet, you are a very vocal minority. Just because you post here repeatedly doesn't make you right.

You keep think this is just me and Doc that are pushing this.  You just ignore all the posters who have stated that they said they think a change might be good just because they don't post on here repeatedly.  I talked to Kluever personally about this very issue and he said it really frustrates him how people refuse to make minor changes in wrestling.  Now, just because he doesn't waste his time (like me) and post on here repeatedly, you think that somehow, he doesn't have strong feelings.  Heck, he went out and got his club the new uniforms  - what does that tell you?  Do you think he just did it on a whim?

Howavi, Dale, and others have said they think the singlet causes a lot of people to not be very respectful of the sport  and they've heard it time and time again, but again, because they don't post on this topic over and over  you dismiss them.

Not to mention, Grappler200 pointed out why any of your "polls" that you like to trumpet are pointless because you're polling the very people on here who this change is not geared towards - the die-hards.

Really, I should just ignore this topic because it's not a huge deal to me but I do believe there are lots of people who read this forum but choose not to post.  Maybe a lot of them agree with you.  Either way, I keep posting because I think change is always present in life and sometimes you can resist it but change is still going to take place.

[whatever]

Padre,

You mentioned cost and that is a valid concern. 

Here is what Kluever told me - he got new singlets, new shorts, new dry-fit tops and a "hoodie" for $105 per kid.  Now granted, this is probably a pretty good deal because they ordered a lot of them and they probably good a pretty good deal because they order lots of wrestling gear.

At the same time, it sounds like the new uniforms were pretty low and were pretty comparable to singlets in terms of cost.

In addition, I would be of the opinion that board shorts and a dry-fit top would be like any other uniform that is turned in by the athletes at the end of the season and re-used for the next few years.  Granted, some kids may want to keep their own but that is an option that could be used for some where they purchase their uniform and the money is used to replace that uniform,

[DocWrestling]

From a cost perspective, I am approaching it this way because that is a concern.

School/club buys the shorts.  They should hold up for a long time I am assuming.  Kids will get them and turn them in.

From a shirts standpoint, I am looking at it differently because I want them to be personalized.  I want to put the school logo  on the shirt as well as the wrestler's last name on the back(maybe even their favorite number from football or baseball).  Make them more like a jersey in look.  These would be replaced each year which means they should always fit well to the athlete and the kids could wear them to school as well as after the season.  I figure we can get them screenprinted and ordered for about $30 with dri-fit shirt-(cheaper if our screen printer donated some time or money as they are a great supporter of our team) .  Now that is an expense for kids but I am sure our club would step up and help those that cannot afford.  A simple fundraiser each year could easily pay for the shirts.  Most parents are willing to spend some money on something personalized and something they can keep and could wear all summer.  Coaches could get the same uniform shirts.

The other aspect I have thought of is we always need a lot of volunteer help at the practices, events, fundraisers, and tournaments we put on.  Maybe every kid pays $30 for the shirt at beginning of season but if they finish the season in good standing and their family has volunteered "x" amount of hours, the club returns their $30 or a portion of it as they have helped raise the money with their volunteer hours.

One weekend brat fry would pay for the shirts every year and the kids could keep them

[ramjet]

Whatever do you see what is posted do you just ignore the polls even the one FRG tried to manipulate? All went with singlet as the majority.   Not a minority by any means like I said many many times go ahead let everyone know post the data how many came out because of the "new" uniform and how many stayed out. That's not bias or anything except curious as to what the results are.

By the way if you have problem with the number of posts I have got to Tom and have him ban me. Heck censure is good way to get only like thinking people to agree with you.

[whatever]

Yes, Ram, I ignore your "polls". (banging head against wall......)

This is why:

Not to mention, Grappler200 pointed out why any of your "polls" that you like to trumpet are pointless because you're polling the very people on here who this change is not geared towards - the die-hards.

Do you see what that is, Ram?  It's a quote box.  That means this has been said before.  Not only am I repeating myself here - I am also repeating what Grappler200 told you previously.  If I repeat it a 6th time, will it sink in that these "polls" are irrelevant to this discussion?

I do have hope that this will sink in because at least you're not repeating your other irrelevant about point about seeing what other successful programs are doing to increase numbers.

And another point I have tried to make clear to you before is that I don't have a problem with the number of your posts.  The problem I have is that the volume of your posts are usually repeating the same arguments without ever adding to the discussion at hand.....but I really don't expect to you to understand my point there. (sigh)

As for me having you banned, if you want to make snide references to previous incidences, let's get it out in the open:

Ram sent me a nasty PM.

I replied and told him to stop or he wouldn't like the end result.

Ram accused me of threatening physical harm and claimed he could get his IT guys to figure out who I was in 30 seconds and that I would be in legal trouble because I threatened him and he now had it in writing.

I replied that there was no physical threat - the end result I was referencing would be getting him banned if he kept sending me nasty PM's.

[ElectricGuy]

WOW

Not sure I should even dip my toe into this shark infested pond. 

But I'm a gluten for punishment.

My son wanted to mix it up with this being his last year of youth, so we purchased MMA / Fighting shorts and a couple of compression tops, total spent around $70,  he wrestled about 40+ matches in them,  I never once witnessed his shorts coming down or his shirt riding up (tucked shirt in).  He loved it,  got quite a few questions and looks.    I wasn't a fan of shorts/shirt a couple years ago when this subject started being talked about, but have warmed up to the idea of this being an option.  I am probably a bit of a traditionalist,  but I now like how he looked in them.   I know he liked that his "package" wasn't protruding from a skin tight singlet when he wore the two piece.

He has had friends say that they didn't want to go out for wrestling, because they didn't want to wear a singlet.  I told his friends that Jr wasn't wearing a singlet this year, they still didn't want to go out for wrestling.

Again, 40+ matches isn't a big sample set, but I never saw where it created a problem for somebodies hands fingers more than a singlet would or more than practice clothing would (seems like everyone's practice clothing is much looser than the two piece that he wore), also didn't see any problem with the ref viewing pins as was mentioned..

Just my two bits..... I like singlets, but I can see how this would quickly become popular.

[silent_but_deadly]

Ram sent me a nasty PM.

I replied and told him to stop or he wouldn't like the end result.

Ram accused me of threatening physical harm and claimed he could get his IT guys to figure out who I was in 30 seconds and that I would be in legal trouble because I threatened him and he now had it in writing.

I replied that there was no physical threat - the end result I was referencing would be getting him banned if he kept sending me nasty PM's.

Sounds like Ram was that kid on the playground who would threaten to tell his mommy when things didn't go his way....

[hammen]

WOW

Not sure I should even dip my toe into this shark infested pond. 

But I'm a gluten for punishment.

My son wanted to mix it up with this being his last year of youth, so we purchased MMA / Fighting shorts and a couple of compression tops, total spent around $70,  he wrestled about 40+ matches in them,  I never once witnessed his shorts coming down or his shirt riding up (tucked shirt in).  He loved it,  got quite a few questions and looks.    I wasn't a fan of shorts/shirt a couple years ago when this subject started being talked about, but have warmed up to the idea of this being an option.  I am probably a bit of a traditionalist,  but I now like how he looked in them.   I know he liked that his "package" wasn't protruding from a skin tight singlet when he wore the two piece.

He has had friends say that they didn't want to go out for wrestling, because they didn't want to wear a singlet.  I told his friends that Jr wasn't wearing a singlet this year, they still didn't want to go out for wrestling.

Again, 40+ matches isn't a big sample set, but I never saw where it created a problem for somebodies hands fingers more than a singlet would or more than practice clothing would (seems like everyone's practice clothing is much looser than the two piece that he wore), also didn't see any problem with the ref viewing pins as was mentioned..

Just my two bits..... I like singlets, but I can see how this would quickly become popular.

Thanks for your post. I think that's a good real life example of what can/will happen. Hopefully there are more who would want to go out for wrestling due to the change in uniform, but I see your example being more prominent than kids actually participating due to the new uniform. Just an honest opinion. That would be a situation where more active discussion with the kid may work. Or it may not. It's tough - a difficult sport that some kids are skeptical of trying.

[ramjet]

Whatever you one funny guy you loose an argument with weak and unsubstantiated information and get personal. Typical of your type. You cannot even come close to proving that a change uniform would or even slightly change the participation levels in wrestling. The poll I posted was result of your and Docs unrelenting statements about how going to MMA shorts would increase participation yet offer no other evidence than Kaukauna. A program I might add that has a tremendous support for wrestling and youth feeder program that most likely has more to do with participation than any shorts or uniform. But you insist and when your attempts to get your point across fails miserably you insult me and get personal. Well fire away it really does not bother me the next thing you will be telling everyone is that Board Shorts will safe Olympic wrestling.

[kluevercoach]

The acting head of wrestling's governing body said Friday the federation is negotiating with manufacturers to produce a new singlet

[grappler200]

Whatever do you see what is posted do you just ignore the polls even the one FRG tried to manipulate? All went with singlet as the majority.   Not a minority by any means like I said many many times go ahead let everyone know post the data how many came out because of the "new" uniform and how many stayed out. That's not bias or anything except curious as to what the results are.

By the way if you have problem with the number of posts I have got to Tom and have him ban me. Heck censure is good way to get only like thinking people to agree with you.

It's somewhat comical that the polls are continued to be used as evidence in this argument...again, the people that voted in these polls are not the opinions that we care about or should be taking a look at in regards to this topic.

The sample used for the polls makes them invalid.  That's Stats 101 stuff.

[ckwrestler]

Not sure what the difference is between a wrestling singlet and a track and field sprinter's singlet besides the intended sport.  It's the competition and what they think to be precarious situations that some people have a problem with.  It wouldn't matter if the wrestlers were wearing sweat pants, eventually those uneasy people would make the inappropriate comments about the sport and its positions.