D2-195 OT

[briggs]

Numbers are a great idea and have been brought up in the past. Officials can see their own rankings but not other officials rankings. I guess it's a big secret.

[wrestle09]

Wrestle09 that is an awesome job with those pics. This should start some dialogue. At 51 seconds, his feet were in. At 51 seconds(next frame) his feet were out. How long do his feet need to be in for in order to call it a takedown? He was on top, opponent was on his back and larsons feet were in..,. For a moment. Does dragging toes count in wrestling like the NFL? Any refs on here care to share their opinion?

That's my point...what is a takedown is becoming as unclear as what is a catch?

Feet in (how long)? He had control per the eye test but that may not be the correct interpretation of the rule.

Ankle hooked, crowd yells 2, hold on, ref hasn't awarded two yet or at all in some cases.

I think this comes down to the two, seemingly, different applications of reaction time. Reaction time (which I think some people seem to forget exists at the high school level) seems to be applied differently depending on the scenario/perspective. In the scenario of wrestler A attempting to takedown wrestler B wrestler A will not be awarded a takedown if the supporting points of wrestler B touch the mat for just a split second. If wrestler A has wrestler B in a crackdown position and covers around the waist for a takedown they are given reaction time to unlock their hands. For right or for wrong reaction time does not SEEM to be given in the scenario of a out-of-bound/on-the-edge takedown when the offensive wrestler has their foot slide out momentarily.

Again, reaction time does not SEEM to be given in these scenarios but I don't know anywhere in the rule book where it is explicitly stated that reaction time does not apply here. I think this is the main reason why this "takedown" fulfills the eye test but does not (as these scenarios have been called in the past) qualify as a takedown. I would love for the WIAA or NFHS to clarify whether reaction time SHOULD be granted in scenarios such as this.

[grasshopper]

I personally thought it was a great call by the ref when I watched it live (especially since half the Kohl center was screaming 2!) I thought that it wasn't a takedown because his momentum carried him out of bounds, and after seeing the pictures posted earlier I can see that may initial judgement was most likely correct.  To me in the moment it appeared kind of obvious that it wasn't a take down, but after reading some of these comments I can see how people are confused, and can honestly say that I am now a little confused (afterall when is a takedown a takedown?). 
After some thought I came to this conclusion: I would relate this situation to how points are awarded during a "headthrow roll through".  In the 195 title match it is clear that the SCC wrestler couldn't have had control inbounds for more than 1 second.  Now lets pretend that instead of a lateral drop at the edge of the mat that the SCC wrestler had attempted a headthrow in the center of the mat; except within 1 second of the PDC wrestler hitting the mat he rolled through the throw and was in control of the SCC wrestler.  In this scenario the PDC wrestler would typically be awarded the takedown, even though for a split second the SCC wrestler would have technically been in control.  (Afterall we typically don't see those throws scored as 2 takedown and then 2 reversal when they happen that quickly, and I can confidently say that most heavyweight roll throughs take longer than 1 second and still are only awarded as a takedown for the wrestler who completed the roll through.)
My point being that momentum does seemingly play a consistent role in how takedowns, reversals, and etc are called, and I don't see this instance as any different. 
This is just one person's opinion though, I'm kind of interested to see what other people think about my reasoning here.

[DocWrestling]

Interesting point and kind of goes back to judgement decisions on when someone has secured control and how "reaction time" is kind of involved.

College goes back and reviews and counts it if it was a millisecond but very tough to see live.  To me there is always "reaction time" with a live official whether it is jumping to other side or getting down on the mat to count back points or see a pin.